Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

Hulk · Dec 5, 2021

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

igor_kavinski · Nov 1, 2023

Rigg said:
You should order a new motherboard while you're at it.

If Hulk gonna do that, Hulk better smash the Enter key on a Z790 Refresh Gigabyte Aorus mobo: https://www.newegg.com/p/13-145-476

H433x0n · Nov 1, 2023

igor_kavinski said:
If Hulk gonna do that, Hulk better smash the Enter key on a Z790 Refresh Gigabyte Aorus mobo: https://www.newegg.com/p/13-145-476

Eh, for an extra $100 you could have the Asus Apex Encore. If you wanted a 4-DIMM Gigabyte motherboard I think you'd probably be fine saving $100 on previous Aorus Master board.

If it were me I'd basically only consider the following:

Asus Z790 Strix E (high end 4-DIMM w/18+1 90A power stages) - $439.00 -> Best overall BIOS & hardware
Asus Z790 Strix F (midrange 4-DIMM w/16+1 90A power stages) - $369.00 -> Basically same as above with a slightly nerfed VRM & w/o PCIe5.0
GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS MASTER (high end 4-DIMM w/20+1 105A power stages) - $449.00 -> Best hardware
GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS PRO (midrange 4-DIMM w/18+1 90A(?) power stages) -> Solid hardware best aesthetics

Rigg · Nov 1, 2023

H433x0n said:
Eh, for an extra $100 you could have the Asus Apex Encore. If you wanted a 4-DIMM Gigabyte motherboard I think you'd probably be fine saving $100 on previous Aorus Master board.

If it were me I'd basically only consider the following:

Asus Z790 Strix E (high end 4-DIMM w/18+1 90A power stages) - $439.00 -> Best overall BIOS & hardware
Asus Z790 Strix F (midrange 4-DIMM w/16+1 90A power stages) - $369.00 -> Basically same as above with a slightly nerfed VRM & w/o PCIe5.0
GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS MASTER (high end 4-DIMM w/20+1 105A power stages) - $449.00 -> Best hardware
GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS PRO (midrange 4-DIMM w/18+1 90A(?) power stages) -> Solid hardware best aesthetics

One of the 'mil-spec' class ATX boards (Tuf, Tomahawk, Steel legend, etc) would probably suffice. All of the boards in that class should have much better power delivery than the 10+1 w/50a power stages he currently has. I like nice high end boards and all but the VRM's on the boards you listed are probably overkill for ambient cooling. You're ultimately paying a hefty premium mostly for nice cosmetics. I'm pretty sure the BIOS on the Strix boards is basically the same as on the Tuf boards except for the different theming and lack of SP rating. Assuming he wanted to stick with MATX there isn't really a great choice. The ASUS ROG Strix Z690-G Gaming WiFi is the only MATX Z board I can find on PCpartpicker with a decent VRM. At least that way he could look at the SP ratings on his chips before he returns them.

H433x0n · Nov 1, 2023

Rigg said:
One of the 'mil-spec' class ATX boards (Tuf, Tomahawk, Steel legend, etc) would probably suffice. All of the boards in that class should have much better power delivery than the 10+1 w/50a power stages he currently has. I like nice high end boards and all but the VRM's on the boards you listed are probably overkill for ambient cooling. You're ultimately paying a hefty premium mostly for nice cosmetics. I'm pretty sure the BIOS on the Strix boards is basically the same as on the Tuf boards except for the different theming and lack of SP rating. Assuming he wanted to stick with MATX there isn't really a great choice. The ASUS ROG Strix Z690-G Gaming WiFi is the only MATX Z board I can find on PCpartpicker with a decent VRM. At least that way he could look at the SP ratings on his chips before he returns them.

What board does he have now? If it’s just a 10+1 50A power stage board I’d have a different set of recommendations.

@Hulk - Go in and set ICCMax to 307A. It’ll make power delivery less violent & smooth things out.

Rigg · Nov 1, 2023

H433x0n said:
What board does he have now? If it’s just a 10+1 50A power stage board I’d have a different set of recommendations.

Asus PRIME Z690M-PLUS D4 according to his sig.

jpiniero · Nov 2, 2023

BAPCo - CrossMark Result Detail

results.bapco.com

Core 7 150U spotted. Appears to be Raptor Lake, so they are using the Non-Ultra branding for Raptor Lake Refresh U.

Hulk · Nov 3, 2023

Thunder 57 said:
Oh no, it runs within specs but not to my liking! Returning right away! I don't care about others who will have to absorb this cost!

Your post has prompted me to not only return the 14900K to Amazon but I will not be playing the lottery and ordering another one. I don't agree with that tactic either. I'm returning it because I wasn't happy with the product. Not THIS sample but the product in general. I'm going to stay with my 13600K until Arrow Lake or Zen 5.

Amazon is very generous with their return policy and I don't want to abuse it.

dullard · Nov 3, 2023

Hulk said:
Your post has prompted me to not only return the 14900K to Amazon but I will not be playing the lottery and ordering another one. I don't agree with that tactic either. I'm returning it because I wasn't happy with the product. Not THIS sample but the product in general. I'm going to stay with my 13600K until Arrow Lake or Zen 5.

I've very rarely seen people truly happy with CPU upgrades of only one generation. The speed gains are often measurable, but often are so small that they can not easily be noticed outside of benchmarks. Plus the i9 line almost never makes good sense outside of bragging rights. The 14700K (or KF) seems to be the sweet spot for Raptor Lake refresh. Frequency difference between that and the 14900K is less than 2%--far too small to actually feel. The only time you'd notice the difference with the 14900K is when you really need all 16 E cores which is not common for most users. That is definitely not worth the 41% price premium on Amazon currently over the 14700K.

Heartbreaker · Nov 3, 2023

dullard said:
I've very rarely seen people truly happy with CPU upgrades of only one generation.

This. I usually wait until I'm getting about double the performance, and current CPU is falling short in some respect.

H433x0n · Nov 3, 2023

Hulk said:
Your post has prompted me to not only return the 14900K to Amazon but I will not be playing the lottery and ordering another one. I don't agree with that tactic either. I'm returning it because I wasn't happy with the product. Not THIS sample but the product in general. I'm going to stay with my 13600K until Arrow Lake or Zen 5.

Amazon is very generous with their return policy and I don't want to abuse it.

@Hulk I feel guilty since my experience prompted you to do it. I didn’t see what motherboard you had before hand.

I’ll sell you my 13900K for $100 in original packaging if you want it (assuming you’re in the US). It’s a SP 96 bin that wasn’t overclocked or abused. It’d just sit in my closet collecting dust anyway.

Just power limit it to IccMax = 307A and it should be fine.

Rigg · Nov 3, 2023

H433x0n said:
@Hulk I feel guilty since my experience prompted you to do it. I didn’t see what motherboard you had before hand.

I’ll sell you my 13900K for $100 in original packaging if you want it (assuming you’re in the US). It’s a SP 96 bin that wasn’t overclocked or abused. It’d just sit in my closet collecting dust anyway.

Just power limit it to IccMax = 307A and it should be fine.

Wow! That's a generous offer. He had a 13900k in that board before the 13600k and had all sorts of performance problems if I recall. If he doesn't take you up on that PM me. I'll gladly take it for $100.

H433x0n · Nov 3, 2023

Rigg said:
Wow! That's a generous offer. He had a 13900k in that board before the 13600k and had all sorts of performance problems if I recall. If he doesn't take you up on that PM me. I'll gladly take it for $100.

I always do this when I upgrade. I refuse to deal with toxic buyers in marketplaces and it’s nice to help people upgrade.

My only stipulations are: 1) it actually gets used and 2) they don’t resell it for profit immediately after buying it. I can’t enforce either stipulation but I’m willing to take it on good faith.

Rigg · Nov 3, 2023

H433x0n said:
I always do this when I upgrade. I refuse to deal with toxic buyers in marketplaces and it’s nice to help people upgrade.

My only stipulations are: 1) it actually gets used and 2) they don’t resell it for profit immediately after buying it. I can’t enforce either stipulation but I’m willing to take it on good faith.

Right on. That's a cool thing to do for your fellow enthusiasts. Yeah, there's a lot of sketchy people online. I've actually had pretty good luck on CL in my area. I much prefer to sell for cash in person vs Ebay and such.

Hulk · Nov 3, 2023

H433x0n said:
@Hulk I feel guilty since my experience prompted you to do it. I didn’t see what motherboard you had before hand.

I’ll sell you my 13900K for $100 in original packaging if you want it (assuming you’re in the US). It’s a SP 96 bin that wasn’t overclocked or abused. It’d just sit in my closet collecting dust anyway.

Just power limit it to IccMax = 307A and it should be fine.

Don't feel guilty! I'm a big boy and it was my decision to give it a go. I was hoping 14th gen would be more power efficient than 13th. I think it might be the other way around. I think in order to push frequencies the "leaky" bins are the ones that hit really high clocks at the expense of power. I remember Anand writing about this I think regarding the Kaby Lake Refresh.

Anyway thanks for the offer on the chip but I'm good. Keep it for a rainy day or offer it to someone who really needs it!

My 13600K is a very nice sample. I can run it all-core 5.4GHz with low power and temps.

Henry swagger · Nov 4, 2023

https://twitter.com/x/status/1720842824671703275

raptor cove has superior ipc even on a ancient node and up against 3x times the l3 cache spamming

Hitman928 · Nov 4, 2023

Henry swagger said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1720842824671703275
raptor cove has superior ipc even on a ancient node and up against 3x times the l3 cache spamming

No.

H433x0n · Nov 4, 2023

Not going to lie, I didn’t expect that at all. Kinda thought the overclocking and DDR5-8000 thing was a meme and only increased perf by like 3-4%.

Would’ve loved to see 14900K w/DDR5-7200 and 7800X3D w/DDR5-6000 instead but it is what it is.

DrMrLordX · Nov 4, 2023

Hitman928 said:
No.

It's just more cherry-picked benchmarks from CapFrameX. He'll never include titles like MS Flight Simulator etc.

Racan · Nov 4, 2023

DrMrLordX said:
It's just more cherry-picked benchmarks from CapFrameX. He'll never include titles like MS Flight Simulator etc.

The source of the benchmarks is pcgameshardware.de and they did test MSFS it seems:

CPU-Giganten im RAM-OC-Vergleich: Core i9-14900K gegen Ryzen 7 7800X3D

PCGH prüft, wie gut Core i9-14900K und Ryzen 7 7800X3D mit schnellen Arbeitsspeicher skalieren. Wer macht das Rennen, AMD oder Intel?

www.pcgameshardware.de

igor_kavinski · Nov 4, 2023

Someone cheaping out on RAM and mobo with 7800X3D can still get excellent gaming performance. While with Intel, just paying for the 14900K will break the budget, without even including expensive DDR5-8000 and a decent mobo with the capabiity of running that RAM kit at its rated speed. And then don't even ask about the electricity bills that will pile up over the lifetime of that Intel system. The "Raptor" stands for how quickly and greedily it devours power. Seriously, and no offense to the Intel users here, but saying Intel wins is like saying your loud jet engine powered race car beat an electric car.

Hitman928 · Nov 4, 2023

Racan said:
The source of the benchmarks is pcgameshardware.de and they did test MSFS it seems:
View attachment 88341

CPU-Giganten im RAM-OC-Vergleich: Core i9-14900K gegen Ryzen 7 7800X3D

PCGH prüft, wie gut Core i9-14900K und Ryzen 7 7800X3D mit schnellen Arbeitsspeicher skalieren. Wer macht das Rennen, AMD oder Intel?

www.pcgameshardware.de

He pretty much only ever quotes PCGH because they are pretty much the only ones that show such low results with X3D CPUs in games. No one else shows such results unless they are GPU limited. Not sure why their AMD results are so crappy all the time. Probably has to do with terrible memory timings they are using but even that I don't think fully explains it. Maybe whatever part of the world they are testing in just favors Intel in that one section whereas everywhere else others are testing favors AMD. No idea. Whatever the cause, PCGH is clearly the outlier here. Even if we take PCGH results at face value, the Intel CPUs are running at a significantly faster frequency, so the claim about higher IPC is dis proven by his own citation.

Note that the Tomshardware result is with DDR5-6800 memory for the overclocked results. The performance difference between decently tuned 6800 and 8000 memory will be very small.

igor_kavinski · Nov 4, 2023

How come the shills fail to mention the stellar stock speed performance of the 3D chip paired with slower RAM?

Overcoming 700 MHz core frequency and 400 MT/s RAM speed deficits and it still flies!

igor_kavinski · Nov 4, 2023

Hitman928 said:
Maybe whatever part of the world they are testing in just favors Intel in that one section whereas everywhere else others are testing favors AMD. No idea.

It could be an NVMe drive issue too, since PCIe 4.0/5.0 bus speeds suffer a bit on AM4/AM5 and FS2020 depends a lot on streaming textures. PCGH could somehow be messing up the AMD chipset driver installation.

Racan · Nov 4, 2023

igor_kavinski said:
How come the shills fail to mention the stellar stock speed performance of the 3D chip paired with slower RAM?

View attachment 88343

Overcoming 700 MHz core frequency and 200 MT/s RAM speed deficits and it still flies!

Don't get me wrong, I'd choose the 7800X3D any day over Raptor Lake. I don't want a space heater near me for only an insignificant performance advantage, especially if I have to rely on a lucky RAM overclock. In fact, I'm in the process of building a small form factor PC with the 7800X3D. I've gathered some parts, and I'm waiting for Black Friday to get the rest.

DrMrLordX · Nov 4, 2023

Racan said:
The source of the benchmarks is pcgameshardware.de and they did test MSFS it seems:

@Hitman928 pretty much nailed it already though it's curious that CapFrameX didn't include those numbers as a middle finger to all the other review sites that have published contradictory results.

edited for clarity

Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

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