60 Minutes story tonight (2/3 of the hour) on spate of mysterious attacks beginning in 2016 on US officials and staff

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repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
4,538
3,447
136
Information without appropriate context can easily be misinformation, I'd hope you would agree with that statement.

The appropriate context was there in the post. He even said something about extending all the way up to super high frequency cosmic rays. Can’t believe I’m even bothering to argue this.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,576
12,687
146
The appropriate context was there in the post. He even said something about extending all the way up to super high frequency cosmic rays. Can’t believe I’m even bothering to argue this.
Because you're far more interested in being right on an internet forum than delivering appropriate information. A broad statement was made without appropriate context, it got scrutinized, and more appropriate information has now been stated in this thread. That's literally the purpose of a healthy forum, past inane bullshit.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,996
14,507
146
The appropriate context was there in the post. He even said something about extending all the way up to super high frequency cosmic rays. Can’t believe I’m even bothering to argue this.

Let's bring the context back, shall we?

Let's see where he intentionally begins bringing in ionizing radiation into a discussion of non-ionizing radiation. Shall we?

Yesterday at 7:45 PM
Amused said:
This.

The magical thinking surrounding electromagnetic radiation is simply astounding. Even here on a tech site to see the same mythical thinking that exists on alt-med and conspiracy sites is amazing to me.

For all these claims, no one can seem to replicate ANY results except HEATING. Because just as with all other forms of non-ionizing electromagnetic radiation we use daily and FEEL the heat from, radio waves can only hurt you if they burn you.

To date ALL directed energy weapons using radio waves are effective by HEATING the skin of the target. That's it. Heat.

Frequency is largely irrelevant, wattage is. And with enough wattage and focus ALL non-ionizing electromagnetic radiation, from radio waves, to infra red, to visible light will BURN you. That's it. Exactly how it heats and burns you is dependent on frequency, but that's the only harm it can do. Heat and burn you.

And magnetic fields you cannot feel are harmless too. I mean, we're delving into the quack magnetic bracelet territory here.

We'll stand in front of an electric stove/oven/heater giving off EMR we can FEEL as heat and think nothing of it, yet we have magical thinking about radio waves we cannot feel.


Did Microwaves Harm US Employees at Its Embassy in Havana?
A recent review of unexplained symptoms in employees of the US Embassy in Havana pointed to microwaves. Was it mass psychogenic illness instead? Or something entirely different?
sciencebasedmedicine.org

A review of <em>Are Electromagnetic Fields Making Me Ill? How Electricity and Magnetism Affect Our Health</em>, by Bradley J. Roth
A new book explores some of the (un)scientific controversies about electromagnetic radiation and health.
sciencebasedmedicine.org
He says:

Frequency IS a big deal with EM radiation. The higher the frequency the more it penetrates, both structures and bodies. Now, an enemy combatant has their choice of frequencies from long wavelength radio waves all the way up to cosmic ray super high frequencies. Those, BTW, are capable of causing cancer because they ARE ionizing, as is some of the EM radiation (gamma rays) coming off of nuclear reactions.

Did you watch the 60 minute stories?

You poo poo magnetic fields, but there are studies proving that sustained pulsing magnetic fields of sufficient intensity and duration are harmful. The threshold is generally 2 milligauss. If you are exposed to that for hours you are not doing yourself any favors. You don't want your house where you suffer that all the time, e.g. under high voltage transmission cables, or perhaps near large transformers.

Deleterious effects from EM radiation (and there are all kinds and from multifarious sources where people live and work and travel) are not well understood. Their effects on humans are not easy to study.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,996
14,507
146
Whoever the fuck you are, I was a physics major at a major American university, U.C. Berkeley. Pretty much got straight A's in physics. Get the fuck out of here with this bullshit.

So why would you introduce ionizing radiation into a discussion about non-ionizing radiation in cases where ionizing radiation had been ruled out and ONLY RF technology is suspected?

Why would you introduce ionizing radiation except to confound the fact that penetration is progressively less as frequency rises in NON-ionizing radiation?

Why would you not readily admit the ONLY valid, verifiable harmful effects from non-ionizing EM is heat. The rest is suggested and largely debunked.
 

repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
4,538
3,447
136
Because you're far more interested in being right on an internet forum than delivering appropriate information. A broad statement was made without appropriate context, it got scrutinized, and more appropriate information has now been stated in this thread. That's literally the purpose of a healthy forum, past inane bullshit.

I’m concerned with physics. If the post that’s now quoted right above here didn’t have enough context .. not sure what to say about that. It was pretty obvious to me.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,996
14,507
146
I’m concerned with physics. If the post that’s now quoted right above here didn’t have enough context .. not sure what to say about that. It was pretty obvious to me.

Does the story this thread is based on have anything to do with, or suggest the use of, ionizing radiation?
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,576
12,687
146
I’m concerned with physics. If the post that’s now quoted right above here didn’t have enough context .. not sure what to say about that. It was pretty obvious to me.
I'm concerned with physics too, but I'm also concerned with information. Information needs to be delivered with context relevant to a layman, not to someone with a PHD in the subject matter. Saying a 10SV dose of radiation isn't concerning because it'll kill you slower than a bear (but leaving the bear part out) isn't particularly useful, and it's wrong without the context.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,826
8,298
136
And quick extremely high powered pulses of energy/heat create pressure waves. People can and do experience these as sound without experiencing a heating sensation.

I don’t even necessarily think this or a similar effect on the inner ear is what’s happening here, but it’s within the realm of physically possible. It’s funny as shit to me though that people who think they know more than they do are so certain it’s not.
What is more, this is evidently the result of a concerted intense effort to develop a difficult to detect but effective weapon. Perhaps they cunningly, intentionally scaled it down so as to make people uncertain if it's really happening. Before you poo poo and disregard this, watch the 60 Minutes pieces.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,515
13,090
136
Hint, its because they are under high levels of stress....

I am fairly certain there is petabytes+ of data on record in form of scans, x-rays, mri's, phd's, so on and so forth, that documents the effects of stress on the human brain.

I have to assume that these cases have characteristics that disqualifies them from the above set of data.

I mean. I *have* to assume that, otherwise I might as well begin to believe in jewish space lasers.
 
Reactions: Muse

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,826
8,298
136
I am fairly certain there is petabytes+ of data on record in form of scans, x-rays, mri's, phd's, so on and so forth, that documents the effects of stress on the human brain.

I have to assume that these cases have characteristics that disqualifies them from the above set of data.

I mean. I *have* to assume that, otherwise I might as well begin to believe in jewish space lasers.
I think watching the 60 Minutes treatment would move an honest and discerning person beyond the notion that the complaints' source is stress.
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,401
386
126
I think Russia is too busy in Ukraine and trying to get documents from Trump to bother with harassing FBI field agents. I also think that targeting low-level targets like individual agents, isn't worth the risk of getting caught.

Stress is amazingly powerful and it affects everyone differently. My own experiences with extreme stress include dizziness, vomiting, fatigue, sweats and headaches and I have never been in a war zone or the target of violence. For now I think occums razor still suggests stress, but if there is good evidence, like a smoking (radiation/microwave) gun, I am willing to change my mind.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,793
8,356
136
60 minutes did another follow up on this and came up with actual links to Russian intelligence.

Watching it right now. Taking up the whole episode so far.
 
Reactions: Muse

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,996
14,507
146
60 minutes did another follow up on this and came up with actual links to Russian intelligence.

Watching it right now. Taking up the whole episode so far.

Reading it, it looks like empty unverifiable claims about Russia and claims all the countries have this "weapon." Including the US. Yet no one can seem to reproduce ANY of this.

I have yet to see ANYONE demonstrate harmful RF effects without heating. And no, minute heated pressure waves that can cause clicking in the ear cannot cause all these symptoms without significant heating.

Not to mention the "symptoms" are ALL over the map.

If anything I would bet this is either psychogenic OR maybe (big maybe) directed sound waves, NOT RF.
 
Last edited:

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,793
8,356
136
Reading it, it looks like empty unverifiable claims about Russia and claims all the countries have this "weapon." Including the US. Yet no one can seem to reproduce ANY of this.

I have yet to see ANYONE demonstrate harmful RF effects without heating. And no, minute heated pressure waves that can cause clicking in the ear cannot cause all these symptoms without significant heating.

Not to mention the "symptoms" are ALL over the map.

If anything I would bet this is either psychogenic OR maybe (big maybe) directed sound waves, NOT RF.

I don't think they were pinpointing the exact cause of the injuries as much as they were linking the times/places/victims to specific individuals that have been linked to Russian intelligence.

Specifically, the FBI agent that was disguised and her involvement in the counter-intel case involving the russian picked up in FL for racing away from authorities. Along with the woman in Tblisi(?) who identified the man she saw outside her house after her attack that was a part of their assassination unit.

All of them mentioned audio at the time and balance/vestibular symptoms.
 

yottabit

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2008
1,375
240
116
Reading it, it looks like empty unverifiable claims about Russia and claims all the countries have this "weapon." Including the US. Yet no one can seem to reproduce ANY of this.

I have yet to see ANYONE demonstrate harmful RF effects without heating. And no, minute heated pressure waves that can cause clicking in the ear cannot cause all these symptoms without significant heating.

Not to mention the "symptoms" are ALL over the map.

If anything I would bet this is either psychogenic OR maybe (big maybe) directed sound waves, NOT RF.
I’ve been fascinated by this story since it’s inception- Masers and all the wacky theories

I know there’s been reported cases of disorientation etc in extreme magnetic fields (2 T+) that you would find in superconducting magnets for instance, see: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4409466/

But that seems to only effect “some” people -maybe they have a higher blood iron content? And anyone familiar with magnets would know it would be preposterously impractical, you’d have to wheel a giant liquid helium cooled monstrosity right up behind the victim’s head. Still, the reported symptoms are similar

Lasers can also convert targeted energy to sound waves by localized heating - there’s a great SmarterEveryDay video where he shows aiming laser through a window to send audio to indoor smart devices (triggering your Alexa or whatever) - I’m sure some similar effect could be targeted at a person’s head but again it seems so impractical

I still wonder if these symptoms are a byproduct of some of United State’s own classified equipment on-site at these facilities and that’s why we’ll never hear about the cause, and/or they’ve been supporting/humoring the bogus “Russia/China did it” EMF stuff as a cover.
 
Reactions: [DHT]Osiris
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