So why did Biden suddenly take a page from Trump’s playbook with tariffs?

itsmydamnation

Platinum Member
Feb 6, 2011
2,863
3,413
136
I didn't realise trump invented tariffs.

The world is deglobalising a little bit , your going to see degrees of walls put up against your threats/adversaries.
 
Reactions: hal2kilo

RalphTheCow

Senior member
Sep 14, 2000
512
15
81
1) holy lurker/necro account
2) China dumping EVs would destroy the US automotive industry, which is an economic and security issue.
I prefer “low volume” account. Anandtech was about my first forum and I have always liked it here! My main forum prohibits polytics so I thought I would dip
my toe in the water here. Good responses to this thread 🧵 so it is working out so far! (uh, either this site or my phone is suggesting words and that thread picture! Eek, AI! ).
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,794
10,321
136
I prefer “low volume” account. Anandtech was about my first forum and I have always liked it here! My main forum prohibits polytics so I thought I would dip
my toe in the water here. Good responses to this thread 🧵 so it is working out so far! (uh, either this site or my phone is suggesting words and that thread picture! Eek, AI! ).
My apologies, you are a real person!

There have been a number of accounts over the last few years that have been hijacked - accounts that have historically been low volume and/or inactive, especially in P&N - only to suddenly post a flurry of provocative (and usually bullshit) threads. So I was inherently suspicious of you at first.

Welcome to P&N! You'll find we're all a little crazy here. Some more than others debating in good faith, and supporting your positions with data, goes a loooong way towards people understanding you, even if they don't agree with you.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,521
12,816
136
My apologies, you are a real person!

There have been a number of accounts over the last few years that have been hijacked - accounts that have historically been low volume and/or inactive, especially in P&N - only to suddenly post a flurry of provocative (and usually bullshit) threads. So I was inherently suspicious of you at first.

Welcome to P&N! You'll find we're all a little crazy here. Some more than others debating in good faith, and supporting your positions with data, goes a loooong way towards people understanding you, even if they don't agree with you.
Yeah, he's made a few posts here and there in recent history.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,840
13,765
146
The problem is actually dumping. A foreign government funds its domestic production for international consumption in an effort drive out the foreign competition.

GM, Ford, and Tesla would struggle to compete with Chinese BYD EVs artificially priced $10K - $20K less via Chinese subsidies. So they go under then BYD owns the American car market and jacks prices up.

Free trade agreements usually don’t apply to dumping.
 
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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,203
3,617
126
Tariffs and protection of American union worker's jobs has long been the rallying cry of Democrats. Republicans for decades demanded free markets. Then Trump came along, threw out free trade agreements, and implemented tariffs. So, I disagree with the premise of this thread. It isn't Biden taking a play from Trump, but instead this is one of the places where Trump took a play from Democrats.

Theoretically it will contribute to inflation. Look at what happened after Trump put in 25% tariffs and suddenly prices went up nearly 25% over the next 2 years. But, in this particular Biden case it is often tariffs on items that weren't being sold here. For example, Chinese EVs are not really sold in the US other than a rare import here or there. So, a tariff on something that isn't sold acts more as a trade barrier than short term inflation. The idea being that hopefully allowing healthy US companies will lower EV prices here in the long term even if short term it helps to keep prices high.
 
Reactions: GodisanAtheist

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,989
38,401
136
These tariffs are appropriate and rational, therefore quite removed from "Trump's Playbook."


If Biden ever starts laundering money for Russians, conducting insurrections with fake elector plots, downplaying deadly pandemics for politics sake, or spending >3 months a year playing golf while in office, then you can accuse him of taking a page from "Trump's playbook."


Till then, this is just China getting what it so justly deserves. Bravo Joe.
 
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Reactions: iRONic

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,989
38,401
136
Because protectionism is popular.

When dealing with people who want to ruin you I call it prudent. Look what they did to Brazil. China wants to play the game but it doesn't want to play by the same rules as everyone else. That's a problem.
 
Reactions: iRONic

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,860
20,182
136
Targeted tariffs are a normal part of business. Trump just did a fuck it tariffs on everything! It's like comparing a surgical precision strategy, vs just dropping a nuke.
 

APU_Fusion

Senior member
Dec 16, 2013
943
1,432
136
Tariffs are horrendous normally but is a main recourse for a country doing something like what China is doing in a capital economy. You can bet your behind China would do the same to the US if our government subsidized all Teslas being sold into China so it cost much less than their domestic vehicles.

As other said; targeted tariffs are sometimes necessary evil.
 
Reactions: hal2kilo

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,323
2,346
136
Part of the problem is that U.S. Big 3 have gone all-in on light truck profits in the N.A. market. GM and Ford each used to have a decent China business, but that's cratered and is unlikely to ever rebound. Good piece by WashPo:

 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
5,837
2,098
136
Tariffs and protection of American union worker's jobs has long been the rallying cry of Democrats. Republicans for decades demanded free markets. Then Trump came along, threw out free trade agreements, and implemented tariffs. So, I disagree with the premise of this thread. It isn't Biden taking a play from Trump, but instead this is one of the places where Trump took a play from Democrats.

Theoretically it will contribute to inflation. Look at what happened after Trump put in 25% tariffs and suddenly prices went up nearly 25% over the next 2 years. But, in this particular Biden case it is often tariffs on items that weren't being sold here. For example, Chinese EVs are not really sold in the US other than a rare import here or there. So, a tariff on something that isn't sold acts more as a trade barrier than short term inflation. The idea being that hopefully allowing healthy US companies will lower EV prices here in the long term even if short term it helps to keep prices high.

I can understand with automobiles. There is a very valid question of illegal subsidies by the Chinese government to manipulate the market. My only issue is, there's no conclusion to the investigations yet. EU investigations are ongoing.

One major issue with the tariffs is Biden is targeting other items that the US needs. Things like PPE (needles, gloves, masks) manufactured in China, and that is definitely going to affect the health industry.

Solar panels are another target. This will only affect those who care about green energies, so all the conservatives can cheer this one on.

Battery parts. This will definitely increase the prices of many consumer items, considering how many things come with batteries nowadays.

Steel and aluminum. I haven't seen more info on this, so not sure if it's just raw steel and aluminum. But that's got to raise the prices of general consumer items.

STS (ship-to-shore) cranes. Now here's a surprising one. From what I know, the US doesn't currently make STS cranes and hasn't for nearly 3 decades. STS cranes moves containers from the ship to shore, or from shore to the container ships. Biden did announce grants for Japanese company, Misui E&S Co, to make STS cranes in the US. It seems this is the very protectionism Biden, and the US, has been wailing about.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,058
7,478
136
Protectionism and tarrifs were always an old school Dem thing. Protecting American jobs and Union workers etc. Republicans were always the probusiness free market hawks that were cool with off shoring and trade agreements because it allowed business to circumvent expensive American labor.

Trump flipped that whole thing on it's head with his populism, and now suddenly tarrifs are seen as a Republican thing, when really Trump just went ahead with an old school Dem idea and just sprinkled some of his usual ambiguously racist fairy dust on it and called it a day.

Actually really speaks to how popular Dem policies are, when a Pub can just lift them and suddenly Republicans love it.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,794
10,321
136
I can understand with automobiles. There is a very valid question of illegal subsidies by the Chinese government to manipulate the market. My only issue is, there's no conclusion to the investigations yet. EU investigations are ongoing.

One major issue with the tariffs is Biden is targeting other items that the US needs. Things like PPE (needles, gloves, masks) manufactured in China, and that is definitely going to affect the health industry.

Solar panels are another target. This will only affect those who care about green energies, so all the conservatives can cheer this one on.

Battery parts. This will definitely increase the prices of many consumer items, considering how many things come with batteries nowadays.

Steel and aluminum. I haven't seen more info on this, so not sure if it's just raw steel and aluminum. But that's got to raise the prices of general consumer items.

STS (ship-to-shore) cranes. Now here's a surprising one. From what I know, the US doesn't currently make STS cranes and hasn't for nearly 3 decades. STS cranes moves containers from the ship to shore, or from shore to the container ships. Biden did announce grants for Japanese company, Misui E&S Co, to make STS cranes in the US. It seems this is the very protectionism Biden, and the US, has been wailing about.
a lot of structural steel is made in china. by tonnage, china dwarves everyone else by a massive margin.

 
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