Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	8 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Arrow Lake Refresh (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Desktop Only	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2025 ?	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	8P + 32E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	?	8 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

majord · May 17, 2024

Are there any leaks about Arrow lake uArch details at all yet? I mean, more than just "no HT"

Gideon · May 17, 2024

Looks to be an interesting handheld:

Chinese company reveals world's first Intel Lunar Lake gaming handheld - VideoCardz.com

First gaming handheld powered by Intel next-gen Lunar Lake and Xe2 Battlemage graphics spotted Battlemage on board. Weibu GP10 is the next-gen gaming handheld announced prematurely by the company. This device has appeared on the official Computex website, where the company claims it will...

videocardz.com

igor_kavinski · May 17, 2024

majord said:
Are there any leaks about Arrow lake uArch details at all yet? I mean, more than just "no HT"

Only this so far: http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=thread...akes-discussion-threads.2606448/post-41174193

igor_kavinski · May 17, 2024

Gideon said:
Chinese company reveals world's first Intel Lunar Lake gaming handheld - VideoCardz.com

First gaming handheld powered by Intel next-gen Lunar Lake and Xe2 Battlemage graphics spotted Battlemage on board. Weibu GP10 is the next-gen gaming handheld announced prematurely by the company. This device has appeared on the official Computex website, where the company claims it will...

videocardz.com

Great. It means Intel is in the PC gaming game for the long haul. Would be stupid to leave these devices orphaned if they stop updating graphics drivers. I hope this shuts up any further rumors of "Intel getting out of GPUs!" from MLID.

LightningZ71 · May 17, 2024

Given Intel's past history, them releasing a product means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about how long they will provide driver support for them. This is ESPECIALLY true of iGPU drivers, having launched and abandoned multiple products within 18 months or less in multiple lines. Given the source of the product referenced, it wouldn't shock me if they completely omitted any sort of driver support language from the supply contract for the processors/SoCs to get the absolute cheapest possible price.

igor_kavinski · May 17, 2024

Hopefully LNL ships in enough volume to make them support it longer.

CouncilorIrissa · May 17, 2024

Gideon said:
Looks to be an interesting handheld:

Chinese company reveals world's first Intel Lunar Lake gaming handheld - VideoCardz.com

First gaming handheld powered by Intel next-gen Lunar Lake and Xe2 Battlemage graphics spotted Battlemage on board. Weibu GP10 is the next-gen gaming handheld announced prematurely by the company. This device has appeared on the official Computex website, where the company claims it will...

videocardz.com

Here's hoping that BMG requires less fiddling to get older games to work.

majord · May 18, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
Only this so far: http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=thread...akes-discussion-threads.2606448/post-41174193

thanks for that, I should say I meant the Lion Cove uArch specificly ,

IF this is a full architecture overhaul why so little information? Not expecting we'd have a full uAarchitecture detials , but is there no rumors or info to gather from the usual sources, or deeper Speculation?

Ghostsonplanets · May 18, 2024

Lunar Lake should be a great Handheld PC SoC. If Intel subsidize them, perhaps they might even enter the eyes of Valve for a possible SteamDeck 2.

igor_kavinski · May 19, 2024

majord said:
IF this is a full architecture overhaul why so little information?

We may get more info at Computex.

DavidC1 · May 19, 2024

majord said:
thanks for that, I should say I meant the Lion Cove uArch specificly ,

IF this is a full architecture overhaul why so little information? Not expecting we'd have a full uAarchitecture detials , but is there no rumors or info to gather from the usual sources, or deeper Speculation?

I don't know why we need it so early on?

I absolutely despised Intel repeating about Tigerlake three times. Once is enough. Release it and be done with it. Everything else can be left to imagination of the speculators.

SiliconFly · May 19, 2024

majord said:
Are there any leaks about Arrow lake uArch details at all yet? I mean, more than just "no HT"

majord said:
thanks for that, I should say I meant the Lion Cove uArch specificly ,

IF this is a full architecture overhaul why so little information? Not expecting we'd have a full uAarchitecture detials , but is there no rumors or info to gather from the usual sources, or deeper Speculation?

Yep. It's really sad we aren't getting enough good details even this late in the cycle.

I think too much of secrecy isn't good for them in the long run.

Henry swagger · May 19, 2024

Twitter post removed

Skymont needs 25% to reach m2 and golden gove ipc in int operations.. the goal is close if they can reach 4.8ghz 🤔😀

Profanity is not allowed.

esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

AMDK11 · May 19, 2024

majord said:
thanks for that, I should say I meant the Lion Cove uArch specificly ,

IF this is a full architecture overhaul why so little information? Not expecting we'd have a full uAarchitecture detials , but is there no rumors or info to gather from the usual sources, or deeper Speculation?

Here you go.
I know I'm repeating myself, but the only sticking point when it comes to LionCove is this unlabeled graphic diagram from Intel. I described it myself and I think some details already say something. It is always more than the data generally available on the Internet about LionCove.

DavidC1 · May 20, 2024

AMDK11 said:
Here you go.
I know I'm repeating myself, but the only sticking point when it comes to LionCove is this unlabeled graphic diagram from Intel. I described it myself and I think some details already say something. It is always more than the data generally available on the Internet about LionCove.

Saying FP/ALU portion increased by 100% is misleading. If anything they put FP in separate ports from the ALUs. However the gain is likely small, because they typically aren't utilized full all the time thus sharing ports reduces transistor count thus die and power. Since CPUs have been forever limited by power, it further reduces the impact. Of course analysis is likely redone every generation.

Also specifically about the Lion Cove+ as some calls it for Lunarlake, some were talking about an extra cache level called L0. So that might be the extra block rather than separated L2 blocks.

I think you're also missing something on the uop width portion with the drastic increase to 14, understandable since Intel said nothing about Lion Cove. It would be nice to see a 30% uarch gain to counter rumored 10% clock loss but many reputable leakers and insiders did not seem to be positive in terms of Lion Cove for performance so the typical 20% figure is likely.

So I'd temper the expectations down a bit. But the Zen 5 guys are also prepared to be disappointed with the latest rumored performance gains lower than high level architectural gains. Maybe both are sandbagging, or maybe both will disappoint.

@Henry swagger Gracemont already beats Skylake in Integer, and it would be a disappointment to see only 16-18% gain since Crestmont is already 4-6% faster. In fact to live up to previous gains, Skymont should be 30% on TOP of Crestmont, and that'll get us to roughly Golden Cove, beating it noticeably in Integer and losing significantly in FP.

igor_kavinski · May 20, 2024

DavidC1 said:
Skymont should be 30% on TOP of Crestmont, and that'll get us to roughly Golden Cove, beating it noticeably in Integer and losing significantly in FP.

If they manage even 25%, they are gonna be relieved!

Dayman1225 · May 20, 2024

Intel confirms Core Ultra 200V “Lunar Lake” is on track for Q3 2024 launch, Arrow Lake update at Computex - VideoCardz

Intel claims 1.4x perf over Snapdragon Elite X (SDEX) in Stable Diffusion, 1.5x iGPU perf over MTL 165u and “faster” core performance than both SDEX and AMD 8840u

Also claims 30% lower package power than 7840u and 20% than SD 8c Gen3 in MS Teams conferencing

Ghostsonplanets · May 20, 2024

Only 30% lower against 7840U certainly isn’t that impressive. Expected much more given it's a specialized part. But at least it's shaping up to be a good enough.

Only 50% faster than MTL-U7 165U is certainly a bit disappointing compared to the 2x expectations. Specially given it's a 1024 ALU part at >=1.5GHz.

Saylick · May 20, 2024

The full slide deck is on Anandtech now: https://www.anandtech.com/show/2139...d-of-computex-transformative-power-efficiency

Philste · May 20, 2024

These slides are an official presentation for today btw, Article went up on Computerbase right now 8pm german time. There is some more slides with exact device configurations.

Joe NYC · May 20, 2024

Saylick said:
The full slide deck is on Anandtech now: https://www.anandtech.com/show/2139...d-of-computex-transformative-power-efficiency

20-30% lower power consumption vs. Snapdragon Elite and Phoenix for CPU purpose built for power consumption.

Well, it's not bad, but I was expecting bigger differences.

Philste · May 20, 2024

Joe NYC said:
20-30% lower power consumption vs. Snapdragon Elite and Phoenix for CPU purpose built for power consumption.

It's not snapdragon elite, it's 8cx gen 3. However everything WIFI involved (browsing-Teams) is currently MTLs weak side. So 30% better than competition at an low power state isn't bad.

CouncilorIrissa · May 20, 2024

Joe NYC said:
20-30% lower power consumption vs. Snapdragon Elite and Phoenix for CPU purpose built for power consumption.

Well, it's not bad, but I was expecting bigger differences.

Especially given that Phoenix is relatively dodgy in low-power envelopes. Its iGPU part anyway.

adroc_thurston · May 20, 2024

"faster".
Well, ugh, that's a metric I guess!

Philste · May 20, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
"faster".
Well, ugh, that's a metric I guess!

+/- 10% margin as well, lol.

Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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Intel confirms Core Ultra 200V “Lunar Lake” is on track for Q3 2024 launch, Arrow Lake update at Computex - VideoCardz