Trump NY Criminal Trial

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thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,912
2,130
126
I don't think he should go to prison, for this one anyway. Prison should be reserved for the predatory and dangerous (OK, Trump is dangerous, but the danger he presents can be addressed in ways other than locking him up). But it's clearly not a political prosecution as the previous poster's quote implies, though.
So no jail time for financial crimes? I don't agree.
Only the threat of jail time MIGHT stop someone from committing financial crimes. Usually any fine they incur is minimal.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,277
8,201
136
Doctoring financial records is definitely prison worthy.

Don't know that I agree. Given that over here they are letting out stalkers and domestic abusers because there's no room left in the prisons.


Not that what I think makes any difference to what will happen to Trump. Just trying to be consistent - I mean, I wouldn't _start_ reforming the system with the rich and powerful, but nor do I think they should be excluded from any attempt to make the system more rational/humane.

Just looking forward to all his other upcoming trials (and tribulations).
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,624
12,757
146
I don't think he should go to prison, for this one anyway. Prison should be reserved for the predatory and dangerous (OK, Trump is dangerous, but the danger he presents can be addressed in ways other than locking him up). But it's clearly not a political prosecution as the previous poster's quote implies, though.
I'm fine with agreeing that prison should be reserved for those likely to repeat the crime in the future...
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,624
12,757
146
Folks need to bear in mind too, prison time may not discourage Trump, but prison time for a president might discourage the next person, and NO prison time for a very public, rich and powerful person will absolutely embolden the next rich and powerful person. Rules only matter if they're enforced.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,388
4,628
136
Or is Trump still sticking to his story that they never had sex? Which would make a hush money payment kind of, odd?
Yup here’s hoping this was the downfall. Once defense denied the affair in closing arguments, perfect ammo for the jurors. So he’s lying about having sex with Stormy. What else is he lying about with these payments. We have his signature on some of the cheques. We have him on recording discussing the matter. As untrustworthy Cohen is, he was a loyal foot soldier doing this on the behalf of an even bigger liar. GLOT^2
 
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trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,681
7,180
136
I can't wait for some Trumpie friends of mine to start parroting the barrage of recriminations that FOX and all of those acolytes and psychofans of Trump's have been rapid firing out of their conservative media outlets. My answer to every one of those spiteful vapid accusations of theirs is that it was twelve people who listened to the evidence from the prosecutors and defense and made their decision based on what was revealed thereof. It wasn't Joe Biden that convicted Trump nor was it anyone else that convicted Trump except for the jurors at his trial.

It wasn't a broken system that convicted him nor was it a fixed kangaroo court. It was a dozen of Trump's peers that both the prosecutors and the defense approved of that decided his fate. To make anything more of that is disingenuous, emotionally misdirected and politically motivated malevolence.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,050
38,552
136
Crook, conman, fraud, thief, racist, rapist, traitor, insurrectionist, narcissistic/possibly syphilitic sociopath

A guy responsible for more American deaths than all of our war dead combined. And now he's the first American "president" to be a convicted felon.

Yeah I can see why repugs who haven't completely succumbed to GQP brain rot might be worried. Like all 8 of them.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
Absolutely not. The people arguing otherwise are mostly liberals who think that cynicism makes them feel smart.
I'll admit I had lost faith he'd be indicted, but I always thought he was very likely to be convicted once it got to trial.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
They said on TV news tonight that Ivanka and Melania didn't show up for any of his trial dates.

Cohen was jailed for 3 years (a lot of that not in custody) because he lied on the stand. Trump didn't testify a peep.

Experts are saying jail time not likely because first offense. I hope that's wrong, the extenuating circumstances look bad for Trump, but IMO it will never be clear what's behind the sentencing that will be announced July 11. I hope it smarts.
Hopefully he at least gets a suspended sentence with a strong gag order.
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
3,218
2,332
136
They said on TV news tonight that Ivanka and Melania didn't show up for any of his trial dates.

Cohen was jailed for 3 years (a lot of that not in custody) because he lied on the stand. Trump didn't testify a peep.

Experts are saying jail time not likely because first offense. I hope that's wrong, the extenuating circumstances look bad for Trump, but IMO it will never be clear what's behind the sentencing that will be announced July 11. I hope it smarts.

But at the same time it was Cohen’s first offense and he got jail time
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
So the walls finally closed in.

Clearly he meant to say "right". You go ahead and have you're little moment in the sun, I'm fine with that.
So now that Trump is a convicted felon do you think it’s time for conservatives to admit that liberals were right about him all along?
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,846
13,777
146
I’m waiting for Alito to start arguing SCOTUS can overturn this verdict even without the case being brought before the court due to the imaginary strongly held beliefs of the framers of the constitution for rulings by judicial fiat.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,875
10,300
136
I guess it's very unlikely he'll go to prison. I don't actually think he should, given the crime was non-violent. Add in the political complications and it surely is very unlikely he'll get a custodial sentence?

But is it possible he'll be sentenced to do community service? Picking up trash or something? Is there a swamp somewhere he could be ordered to drain?
Non-violent white collar crime does immense damage to our country and the best way to stop it is with very harsh prison sentences. Someone addicted to drugs or stealing because they are hungry aren't deterred by prison. But super wealthy white people sure are.

How many people have died as a result of Purdue pharma's non-violent crimes? How many people have lost their life savings due to conmen and fraudulent businesses? Why don't you ask a retired 75 year-old that lost their life savings to Enron if those were non-violent crimes. We should look at the actually outcomes, I'd much rather someone threaten me and take my wallet than steal my wages for years, yet one would get you 10 years and the other is completely ignored.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
I’m waiting for Alito to start arguing SCOTUS can overturn this verdict even without the case being brought before the court due to the imaginary strongly held beliefs of the framers of the constitution for rulings by judicial fiat.
Not a joke, I think this will eventually make it to SCOTUS and I bet Alito will vote to hear the case and/or overturn it.

I suspect the court will overall rule to not hear the case and if they do to sustain the verdict but Alito himself? Nah. There is no more reliable Republican partisan.
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,042
10,224
136
This might have been said before, but there's one thing I think is a bit weird, perhaps even ironic is this:

Trump's presidential platform right from the start (2016), summarised in one image was this:



He said the shit that all the bigots wanted him to say. Basically every kind of dirt that every Presidential candidate would dread came up and he must have expected this to happen, and ordinarily any one of these bits of dirt would have sunk a campaign but not his because his supporters hoped he would lead like the song he had sung to them which no-one else dared to. A dream come true.

In that setting, why bother going out of his way to keep Daniels quiet at all? Just declare it fake news and that's all his fanatics would need, which (aside from the illegal stuff) is exactly what happened. If his potential audience generally believed and took issue with just one shred of the dirt against him (or considered the sheer amount of dirt against him adding up to "where there's smoke there's fire"), he was sunk. If his affair with Daniels was the only bit of dirt then trying to keep it quiet would make sense.

I realise that this argument is easy to make in hindsight but it's also logically true. He's had multiple affairs, multiple marriages, multiple shady business practices, multiple failed businesses, multiple lawsuits, he likes to peep in girls' locker rooms, he has a very ambiguous relationship with his daughter... the list goes on.

My conclusion is that a man like Trump enjoys the use and abuse of power, so even though the hush payment to Daniels was logically unnecessary, the idea that he can control people and so get away with shit is something that satisfies his ego. On the other hand, declaring Daniels to be fake news must surely also be a similarly enjoyable abuse of power and it's not even illegal, but perhaps there's less of a kick out of it because it's legal.
 
Reactions: Muse and nOOky
Dec 10, 2005
24,432
7,355
136
This is another darkly fun example where people who supported the US justice system their entire lives are suddenly shocked and outraged by how unfair and punitive it is once applied to them or someone they like.
Leopards will eat my face party shocked when leopards eat their face. News at 11.
 
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SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
So no jail time for financial crimes? I don't agree.
Only the threat of jail time MIGHT stop someone from committing financial crimes. Usually any fine they incur is minimal.
That is because our system is set up to punish the poor, not the rich. If you wanted to create fines that were punitive for anyone then you would use something like a percentage of their net worth. If the fine for doing something was 15% of your net worth instead of a set number like $5000, then companies and billionaires would be bothered by the fine. As it is anyone over a certain wealth threshold can basically ignore most laws.
In that setting, why bother going out of his way to keep Daniels quiet at all?
Because he was insecure about if it would work or not, and the amount Stormy asked for was so low it was cheaper to pay her off than to pay for the adds it would take to spin it. She really should have been asking for millions.
 
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