Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	8 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Arrow Lake Refresh (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Desktop Only	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2025 ?	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	8P + 32E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	?	8 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

poke01 · Jun 3, 2024

StinkyPinky said:
I feel like Intel are going to bring their "A" game back for Lunar Lake. They have a bit of swagger about them, nice to see.

Yep, Lunar Lake is a great product. No else not AMD not QC has what Intel has with Lunar to compete with M4.

Intel played it smart.

Markfw · Jun 3, 2024

poke01 said:
Yep, Lunar Lake is a great product. No else not AMD not QC has what Intel has with Lunar to compete with M4.

Intel played it smart.

If it had SMT and avx-512, I could consider one. But I think both are missing, right ?

gdansk · Jun 3, 2024

Markfw said:
If it had SMT and avx-512, I could consider one. But I think both are missing, right ?

Arrow Lake is the one you'd consider if it had those.
But it doesn't. I think, though, some future Skymont swarm product should be right up your alley even without those. Is it Clearwater Forest? Something like that.

poke01 · Jun 3, 2024

Markfw said:
If it had SMT and avx-512, I could consider one. But I think both are missing, right ?

Yes they are missing but SMT going away is fine with how Skymont is doing.

Ghostsonplanets · Jun 3, 2024

gdansk said:
Arrow Lake is the one you'd consider if it had those.
But it doesn't. I think, though, some future Skymont swarm product should be right up your alley even without those. Is it Clearwater Forest? Something like that.

CWF should be Darkmont.

gdansk · Jun 3, 2024

Ghostsonplanets said:
CWF should be Darkmont.

Oh didn't know it was different. There's no Skymont one?

Hulk · Jun 3, 2024

H433x0n said:
It got deleted but it will be announced officially in a few hours.

ARL-S
5.7ghz 1T boost clocks
5.4ghz nT boost clocks
4.6ghz e-core clocks

Z890 boards at computex are shown to be supporting CAMM2 memory.

As of now it appears that

Thanks. Clocks are a bit better than expected. I was thinking 10% regression. This is more like 5% and of course an increase for Skymont, which makes me think there was a big architectural overhaul for Skymont.

Okay, seems like they've got the clocks. Now they need that enormous IPC increase on Skymont, at least 10% on Lion Cove, and some efficiency/power improvements.

poke01 · Jun 3, 2024

Hulk said:
Now they need that enormous IPC increase on Skymont,

They got one.
Intel might be goood. It’s giant u-turn from 2 weeks ago.

Saylick · Jun 3, 2024

H433x0n said:
It got deleted but it will be announced officially in a few hours.

ARL-S
5.7ghz 1T boost clocks
5.4ghz nT boost clocks
4.6ghz e-core clocks

Z890 boards at computex are shown to be supporting CAMM2 memory.

As of now it appears that

Dang, kudos to Intel if true.

H433x0n · Jun 3, 2024

Best part about ARL-S is Z890 IMO. The CAMM2 support is super cool, it apparently nets an additional +400Mts memory support alone over SODIMM.

poke01 · Jun 3, 2024

H433x0n said:
Best part about ARL-S is Z890 IMO. The CAMM2 support is super cool, it apparently nets an additional +400Mts memory support alone over SODIMM.

One of the advantages of having to refresh platforms every 2 gens

gdansk · Jun 3, 2024

poke01 said:
One of the advantages of having to refresh platforms every 2 gens

What stops e.g. Z790 from using CAMM2?
I thought MSI showed off such a thing.

adroc_thurston · Jun 3, 2024

gdansk said:
What stops e.g. Z790 from using CAMM2?
I thought MSI showed off such a thing.

Nothing, they're bolting LPCAMM on MTLs just fine.
It's a form-factor, not platform-related.
The same way socketed ITX mobos have SODIMMs here and there.

StinkyPinky · Jun 3, 2024

gdansk said:
What stops e.g. Z790 from using CAMM2?
I thought MSI showed off such a thing.

Yes, this is the board

https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/Z790-PROJECT-ZERO

poke01 · Jun 3, 2024

gdansk said:
What stops e.g. Z790 from using CAMM2?
I thought MSI showed off such a thing.

What I meant was since Intel makes you upgrade every 2 generations, that means you have to get a new motherboard along with your new CPU and this time ARL boards come with newer memory standards.

AM5 will last a long time and most Zen 4 users will likely not upgrade their motherboard because of AMDs long platform support. There are advantages to both strategies. If I had to choose I would prefer AM5, cause motherhood upgrades are a pain. I prefer a CPU upgrade on the same platform unless the other team brings massive improvements.

Mahboi · Jun 3, 2024

If it didn't take me 15 hours, I'd be making a "The Arrow Lake Hype Tomb" video right now.
I'm not telling you not to believe, believe all you like. Just remember, hype trains crash, ours just did, and hype mines sometimes crumble on you too.

Yes it would be Indiana Jones based. I could probably make a great scene of Pat pulling the heart out of the P Core dev team screaming KALI MAAAAAAAA

Ghostsonplanets · Jun 3, 2024

Sneak Peek: AI Playground, AI Made Easy For Intel® Arc™ GPUs – Intel Gaming Access

game.intel.com

Intel announced AI Playground for Arc Graphics (>8GB VRAM) and Arc Graphics integrated (>= 16GB RAM) from Lunar Lake and beyond( except MTL-U, ARL-U and ARL-S/HX due to usage of XMX)

Hulk · Jun 3, 2024

I care not for AI. Show me the CPU's!!!

Saylick · Jun 3, 2024

Hulk said:
I care not for AI. Show me the CPU's!!!

But... but you can use AI to ~~hallucinate~~ show you the CPUs.

Hulk · Jun 3, 2024

Saylick said:
But... but you can use AI to ~~hallucinate~~ show you the CPUs.

The AI in CPU's is a scam!

Joe NYC · Jun 3, 2024

Hulk said:
I care not for AI. Show me the CPU's!!!

I wonder if AI could create a digest, stripping away all the AI fluff...

tamz_msc · Jun 3, 2024

Chadmont in action.

Saylick · Jun 3, 2024

AT has the LNL slides up:

Intel Unveils Lunar Lake Architecture: New P and E cores, Xe2-LPG Graphics, New NPU 4 Brings More AI Performance

www.anandtech.com

SarahKerrigan · Jun 3, 2024

Skymont looks quite fierce.

SarahKerrigan · Jun 3, 2024

Also, not too sure about calling a 4-cyc 48K d-cache an "L0" but maybe there's something I'm missing. Their "L0" sounds to me very much like an L1, and their "L1" sounds very much like an L2.

Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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