Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	8 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Arrow Lake Refresh (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Desktop Only	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2025 ?	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	8P + 32E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	?	8 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

branch_suggestion · Jun 4, 2024

majord said:
Seems peak ST performance will be neck and neck for Zen 5 and Lion cove at the supposed frequencies?

Yes, which is why AMD cheaped out on area again and settled for another balanced PPA core, since AMD knows they have X3D to fall back on and Turin is still gonna be comfortably ahead in server, plus Strix has the better ancillary IP vs ARL-H.
Volumemaxxing is a risky game.

H433x0n · Jun 4, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
A few %% above GLC in specint is where Zen4 and bros dwell.

Dingus on PHX2 goes to 3.7 and that's a mobile part.
Please.

It's a few % above RPC, where Zen 4 is behind.

BTW have you seen SRF benchmarks? Looks like SRF is now the most efficient X86 server CPU in existence.

The power efficiency story of the Xeon 6700E series is a great one and allows Intel to regain competitiveness on that front and in a number of cases outperforming 4th Gen EPYC in performance-per-Watt for both Genoa(X) and Bergamo.

Pretty good event for Intel.

adroc_thurston · Jun 4, 2024

H433x0n said:
It's a few % above RPC, where Zen 4 is behind.

?
Zen4 is still ahead in sir 1-copy.

H433x0n said:
Looks like SRF is now the most efficient X86 server CPU in existence.

Define efficient.
Looks barely faster than EMR in most cases which is pretty kaput.

invisible_city · Jun 4, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
Client variant no.

You don’t know that.

H433x0n · Jun 4, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
?
Zen4 is still ahead in sir 1-copy.

Sauce?

adroc_thurston · Jun 4, 2024

H433x0n said:
Sauce?

Get an SPR-MCC, get a Genoa, bench it.

Also did you mean this? This isn't comparing against Bergamo, but a 64c(!!) Genoa.

gdansk · Jun 4, 2024

H433x0n said:
It's a few % above RPC, where Zen 4 is behind.

BTW have you seen SRF benchmarks? Looks like SRF is now the most efficient X86 server CPU in existence.

Pretty good event for Intel.

No 128 core Bergamo?

Edit: no it's there

adroc_thurston · Jun 4, 2024

gdansk said:
No 128 core Bergamo?

They're not suicidal.

H433x0n · Jun 4, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
Get an SPR-MCC, get a Genoa, bench it.

I'm talking about client, Skymont at the moment is a client only core.

poke01 · Jun 4, 2024

Intel got CAMM2 motherboards. Will be interesting to see how these effect benchmarks.

adroc_thurston · Jun 4, 2024

H433x0n said:
I'm talking about client, Skymont at the moment is a client only core.

Client is tricky because I don't have PHX2 on hand.
Ask cheese, maybe he'll do SPEC runs. Eventually.

branch_suggestion · Jun 4, 2024

H433x0n said:
BTW have you seen SRF benchmarks? Looks like SRF is now the most efficient X86 server CPU in existence.

9754 still slaps it and does have the PPW edge still.
Direct comp is Turin-Dense due to how late it is so...

Ghostsonplanets · Jun 4, 2024

Did anyone got a good, high resolution, photo of PTL I18A wafer?

adroc_thurston said:
That's the neat part. They basically won't.

RPL lives!

Now with SKT, RPL, MTL and ARL-U are non-starters. That's a big issue for Intel.

Markfw · Jun 4, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
Get an SPR-MCC, get a Genoa, bench it.
View attachment 100422
Also did you mean this? This isn't comparing against Bergamo, but a 64c(!!) Genoa.

That is a slow... Genoa also, the 9554 is what they should be using.

What we really need is a few 3rd party review sites to bench them and give results. I don't believe anything either company shows at a preview.

poke01 · Jun 4, 2024

Ghostsonplanets said:
Now with SKT, RPL, MTL and ARL-U are non-starters. That's a big issue for Intel.

Bette to kill your own part yourself before someone else does

Hitman928 · Jun 4, 2024

H433x0n said:
Sauce?

Honey mustard, please.

On a more serious note, you can check the Anandtech 13900k review. It has the 7950x slightly ahead of the 13900k in SPECint IPC.

mikk · Jun 4, 2024

From this slide LNL-MX iGPU seems to be easily faster than MTL-H iGPU at the same power.

Lion Cove might be only 10% faster per clock than Skymont. This is so bad from the big core given how much bigger it is.

H433x0n · Jun 4, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
Client is tricky because I don't have PHX2 on hand.
Ask cheese, maybe he'll do SPEC runs. Eventually.

no, I'm going off of the Phoronix review that I linked.

Edit: Looks like Intel 3 is a legit node. That's super impressive for what was considered a meme SKU a few days ago.

adroc_thurston · Jun 4, 2024

H433x0n said:
no, I'm going off of the Phoronix review that I linked.

Phoronix testing methodology is grade A mess. Don't (unless specific tests).

Ghostsonplanets said:
Now with SKT, RPL, MTL and ARL-U are non-starters. That's a big issue for Intel.

Not my problem.

Markfw said:
That is a slow... Genoa also, the 9554 is what they should be using.

Oh it is.
Which is why they're comparing 128c/128t SRF against 64c/128t Genoa.
They're brave. Not suicidal.

invisible_city · Jun 4, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
Get an SPR-MCC, get a Genoa, bench it.
View attachment 100422
Also did you mean this? This isn't comparing against Bergamo, but a 64c(!!) Genoa.

It is comparing 128 threads vs 128 cores, which is the correct comparison for hyperscalers that count 1 thread as a vCPU.

Saylick · Jun 4, 2024

branch_suggestion said:
Yes, which is why AMD cheaped out on area again and settled for another balanced PPA core, since AMD knows they have X3D to fall back on and Turin is still gonna be comfortably ahead in server, plus Strix has the better ancillary IP vs ARL-H.
Volumemaxxing is a risky game.

I wouldn’t call it cheapening out, but it’s a very engineer-y move and not out of line with what Zen was originally named to do: bring a balanced approach to x86 cores. Using balanced cores (read: high PPA) lets them win in servers, where it matters the most. But I will admit I was really hoping they’d make an x86 version of ARM’s X cores instead of iterating on top of a wildly successful middle core.

SpudLobby · Jun 4, 2024

Saylick said:
Seems like it was AI generated lol

I think they are just saying that SMT traditionally gives 30% more throughput and 20% better power efficiency (so the power increases a little for that 30% more throughput).

But here's the relevant slides:
View attachment 100417
View attachment 100418
View attachment 100419

Awesome. Let’s go Intel.

gdansk · Jun 4, 2024

H433x0n said:
Intel 3 is a legit node

And technically just-on-time according to this 2021 chart from Anandtech.
Maybe Pat did it.

adroc_thurston · Jun 4, 2024

invisible_city said:
which is the correct comparison for hyperscalers that count 1 thread as a vCPU.

Let me introduce you to my friend AMD EPYC™ Bergamo 9754S.

gdansk · Jun 4, 2024

invisible_city said:
It is comparing 128 threads vs 128 cores, which is the correct comparison for hyperscalers that count 1 thread as a vCPU.

I have to ask, however, if you're a hyperscaler and you can buy a 128c Bergamo, why isn't it in the comparison?
Seems negligent.

Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Senior member

Attachments

Senior member

Golden Member

Diamond Member

Member

Golden Member

Diamond Member

Platinum Member

Diamond Member

Golden Member

Golden Member

Diamond Member

Senior member

Senior member

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member

Golden Member

Diamond Member

Diamond Member

Attachments

Golden Member

Diamond Member

Member

Diamond Member

Senior member

Platinum Member

Attachments

Diamond Member

Platinum Member