Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	8 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Arrow Lake Refresh (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Desktop Only	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2025 ?	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	8P + 32E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	?	8 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

Khato · Jun 4, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
This workload loads the whole socket so you're sitting at TDP cap.

So the 9754 is showing 1.25X the performance of the 6766E at 1.44x the power consumption. As expected, SRF wins on efficiency until it's pushed too far, eg the 6780E. Will be quite interesting to see how the actual high core count variants of SRF scale.

adroc_thurston · Jun 4, 2024

Khato said:
So the 9754 is showing 1.25X the performance of the 6766E at 1.44x the power consumption

It's also like that much perf over the 330W SRF.
Come on.

Saylick · Jun 4, 2024

High Yield has an excellent video summarizing LNL so I’ll gladly give him a plug:

One thing he mentions that wasn’t covered too much by others is the 8 MB memory side cache. It is shared amongst much of the uncore but it primarily acts as a LLC for the Skymont cluster, which explains how Skymont is able to hit such high IPC because, according to the video, Skymont would be starved without it.

poke01 · Jun 4, 2024

Saylick said:
High Yield has an excellent video summarizing LNL so I’ll gladly give him a plug:

One thing he mentions that wasn’t covered too much by others is the 8 MB memory side cache. It is shared amongst much of the uncore but it primarily acts as a LLC for the Skymont cluster, which explains how Skymont is able to hit such high IPC because, according to the video, Skymont would be starved without it.

High Yields really good. Not biased but presents info well. No drama too

gdansk · Jun 4, 2024

Saylick said:
One thing he mentions that wasn’t covered too much by others is the 8 MB memory side cache. It is shared amongst much of the uncore but it primarily acts as a LLC for the Skymont cluster, which explains how Skymont is able to hit such high IPC because, according to the video, Skymont would be starved without it.

LLC? Oh no the Strix Point people are gonna be mad at Microsoft again

adroc_thurston · Jun 4, 2024

Saylick said:
It is shared amongst much of the uncore but it primarily acts as a LLC for the Skymont cluster, which explains how Skymont is able to hit such high IPC because, according to the video, Skymont would be starved without it.

It's a high IPC increase over the tortured poor 2c LP cluster of MTL.
The one with 2MB of L2 and then a nice, deep pit of main mem.

Gonna be a lot more mid over the DT Gracemont with 4megs of L2 and a full LLC backing it.

poke01 · Jun 4, 2024

Saylick said:
One thing he mentions that wasn’t covered too much by others is the 8 MB memory side cache. It is shared amongst much of the uncore but it primarily acts as a LLC for the Skymont cluster, which explains how Skymont is able to hit such high IPC because,

Bit like Apples P core and it’s L2 Cache? Should probably watch the video first…

adroc_thurston · Jun 4, 2024

poke01 said:
Bit like Apples P core and it’s L2 Cache?

No, Apple has an SLC too, just a slightly different one.
Their LITTLEs are also like 4megs of L2 and then the SLC pile.

Saylick · Jun 4, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
It's a high IPC increase over the tortured poor 2c LP cluster of MTL.
The one with 2MB of L2 and then a nice, deep pit of main mem.

Fair point, but that IPC increase is comparable to Redwood Cove in MTL regardless.

Saylick · Jun 4, 2024

Alright, I’m calling it a day.

Lots of news to digest in these exciting times!

invisible_city · Jun 4, 2024

H433x0n said:
Sierra Forest might be the ticket to getting confidence back in Xeon. If GNR over performs expectations similarly to SRF there might be legit competition in x86 DataCenter again.

GNR will be interesting.

The biggest takeaway from Computex for me, besides the painful wall of partners crap, is that Intel is awake and AMD thought that wouldn’t happen for a while. Exciting times for the industry, competition has been so helpful for both companies. Nvidia is next.

gdansk · Jun 4, 2024

I was fine with NPUs when they weren't so big. But Lunar Lake could be 4+8 easily if it had 1/2 as many NPU units.
Now it's starting to look a bit silly...

H433x0n · Jun 4, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
Gonna be a lot more mid over the DT Gracemont with 4megs of L2 and a full LLC backing it.

ARL-S Skymont that’s attached to the ring outperforms RPC clock for clock. How is that mid?

Khato · Jun 4, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
It's also like that much perf over the 330W SRF.
Come on.

So what? Pretty sure sales of the 'overclocked' 330W 6780E are going to be pretty pathetic compared to the 250W 6766E. For the target market all that matters is 'good enough' performance and best efficiency possible. Comparisons favor SRF even further for use cases where HT is disabled.

H433x0n · Jun 4, 2024

Khato said:
So what? Pretty sure sales of the 'overclocked' 330W 6780E are going to be pretty pathetic compared to the 250W 6766E. For the target market all that matters is 'good enough' performance and best efficiency possible. Comparisons favor SRF even further for use cases where HT is disabled.

Who knew it’d be Intel atoms saving x86 in client and in data center.

adroc_thurston · Jun 4, 2024

H433x0n said:
ARL-S Skymont that’s attached to the ring outperforms RPC clock for clock. How is that mid?

Cuz it's not that much faster than Gracemonts with fat caches.

Khato said:
Pretty sure sales of the 'overclocked' 330W 6780E are going to be pretty pathetic compared to the 250W 6766E. For the target market all that matters is 'good enough' performance and best efficiency possible. Comparisons favor SRF even further for use cases where HT is disabled.

Meta runs 200W Bergamos. Untouchable efficiency. Now what?
Like lmao, at least try.

H433x0n · Jun 4, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
Cuz it's not that much faster than Gracemonts with fat caches.

How does that math work?

Khato · Jun 4, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
Meta runs 200W Bergamos. Untouchable efficiency. Now what?
Like lmao, at least try.

Simple, lower power SRF. Or do you not know about the SRF Meta SKU with your supposed extensive insider knowledge? What's the TDP?

adroc_thurston · Jun 4, 2024

H433x0n said:
How does that math work?

L2 bumps were bonanza for atoms.
Don't think anyone ran SIR 1 copy on GRT that I can easily access so sozz.

adroc_thurston · Jun 4, 2024

Khato said:
Simple, lower power SRF. Or do you not know about the SRF Meta SKU with your supposed extensive insider knowledge? What's the TDP?

They're 144c and still 200W and Bergamo still wins.
Please.

Doug S · Jun 4, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
Yeah, Hardwareluxx says N3b.
It's N3b.

Why would "Hardwareluxx" know what the node is?

Did Intel actually say "N3B", or say "it is the same node as Apple M3"? Or are people just saying "N3B" if they believed the past claims of N3B, and saying N3E because they know that's available now?

Unless it is confirmed by either Intel or TSMC, I'm not going to believe claims of either one until a semi research firm gets their hands on one and puts it under an electron microscope.

adroc_thurston · Jun 4, 2024

Doug S said:
Why would "Hardwareluxx" know what the node is?

They're the press and they were on the event.
Simple enough?

Doug S said:
Did Intel actually say "N3B", or say "it is the same node as Apple M3"?

They tell the press the spec sheet so yeah.

invisible_city · Jun 4, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
It's a high IPC increase over the tortured poor 2c LP cluster of MTL.
The one with 2MB of L2 and then a nice, deep pit of main mem.

Gonna be a lot more mid over the DT Gracemont with 4megs of L2 and a full LLC backing it.

Low effort fud LLM fine tuned on hype train Zen posts.

adroc_thurston · Jun 4, 2024

invisible_city said:
Low effort fud LLM fine tuned on hype train

2/10 bait.
You're going lower.

H433x0n · Jun 4, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
View attachment 100430
L2 bumps were bonanza for atoms.
Don't think anyone ran SIR 1 copy on GRT that I can easily access so sozz.

Have you seen the slide deck where they compare Skymont directly to RPC? It’s clear as day.

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