Question CAMM2 Memory specification published

SteinFG · Dec 11, 2023

CAMM2 Memory specification published

New space-saving RAM sticks that jam up to 128GB of memory in a laptop get industry's stamp of approval - CAMM2 standard ratified by JEDEC

SO-DIMM's successor is official.

www.tomshardware.com

JEDEC Publishes New CAMM2 Memory Module Standard | JEDEC

www.jedec.org

Intereting new part:
Connector between LPDDR and DDR version is the same, but pinout and mounting holes are different.
There's 2-channel version and 1-channel version. 1-channel CAMMs expected to be used where high memory capacity per channel is required.
Trace lengths get weirder. With DIMM, each trace from the cpu traveled the same length, but in this format, there's some adjustments for each pin.

Would be cool If this can actually lead to higher mem speed

Here's some diagrams from jedec pdf

a

Glo. · Dec 11, 2023

SteinFG said:
Would be cool If this can actually lead to higher mem speed

That is the whole point of designing new memory standard/form factor.

Current DDR memory will be a problem when DDR memory goes really fast. CAMM modules were designed by Dell to solve the issue of signal integrity at those speeds.

SteinFG · Dec 11, 2023

Glo. said:
That is the whole point of designing new memory standard/form factor.

Current DDR memory will be a problem when DDR memory goes really fast. CAMM modules were designed by Dell to solve the issue of signal integrity at those speeds.

Yeah I'm aware of reasons. English is not my first languge, so should've worded it differently - excited to see when it can surpass current high-speed dimms

SteinFG · Feb 16, 2024

Some people talked about how camm (not lpcamm) is going to replace dimms. Looking at specs, here's how much space camm modules should take up, relative to the mATX motherboard. Spec says 2 compression attached memory modules stacked on top of each other is the max number for dual-channel ddr5 (instead of 4 when using traditional dimms). Each camm has chips on the front and the back, and assuming that one camm can hold 2x the chips of one dimm, we get 16 chips per side.

nandnandnand · May 8, 2024

SteinFG said:
Each camm has chips on the front and the back, and assuming that one camm can hold 2x the chips of one dimm, we get 16 chips per side.

I don't know what the deal is with these larger sizes, but here is 64 GB LPDDR5X in 4 chips on a small CAMM for laptops:

Micron Ships Crucial-Branded LPCAMM2 Memory Modules: 64GB of LPDDR5X For $330

www.anandtech.com

24 GB LPDDR5X chips for smartphones already exist, so I don't think there is any barrier to getting a 96 GB CAMM in the same size. Two of those would make 192 GB, the same as you can get with 4 DIMMs today, but in a smaller size than your mockup.

Motherboards are being updated to support imminent 64 GB DIMMs and up to 256 GB. I'm not sure if there is an appropriate 32 GB LPDDR5X package on the horizon.

I think the comparison that should be made is between Mini-ITX with 2 DIMMs/SO-DIMMs and these small CAMMs.

SteinFG · May 9, 2024

nandnandnand said:
I think the comparison that should be made is between Mini-ITX with 2 DIMMs/SO-DIMMs and these small CAMMs.

My guess is that LPDDR won't be supported on desktop chips

RnR_au · May 23, 2024

MSI will apparently be releasing a motherboard supporting DDR5 CAMM 2 shortly. Should be announced at computex.

Edit: may not be a 'release'... may just be a preview.

SteinFG · May 24, 2024

~~LPDDR6 may be coming to desktop after all...~~
edit: there's no mention of LPDDR6, i was too quick to post this lol

DrMrLordX · May 25, 2024

SteinFG said:
My guess is that LPDDR won't be supported on desktop chips

Rumour has it that Zen6 will be LPDDR on desktop. We'll see if that happens. If it does . . .sad face.

RnR_au · Jun 5, 2024

Some bits from computex;

On the Computex show floor we have heard that using CAMM2 memory can lower memory latencies by nearly as a third [1]
...its form factor enables the creation of interesting new memory cooling solutions [1]
Was just told that an LPCAMM2 module is cheaper than four sticks of ddr5. Faster too [2]

Sources; [1] , [2]

DeathReborn · Jun 5, 2024

RnR_au said:
Some bits from computex;

On the Computex show floor we have heard that using CAMM2 memory can lower memory latencies by nearly as a third [1]

...its form factor enables the creation of interesting new memory cooling solutions [1]

Was just told that an LPCAMM2 module is cheaper than four sticks of ddr5. Faster too [2]

Sources; [1] , [2]

Point 3 is difficult to tell, DDR5 5600MT 64GB (4x 16GB) SODIMM costs $230 while LPDDR5 LPCAMM2 64GB 7500MT is $330, faster yes but cheaper? I saw the comparison in a video, I think it was Gordon from PC World but saw a few on YouTube so not 100%.

RnR_au · Jun 5, 2024

DeathReborn said:
Point 3 is difficult to tell, DDR5 5600MT 64GB (4x 16GB) SODIMM costs $230 while LPDDR5 LPCAMM2 64GB 7500MT is $330, faster yes but cheaper? I saw the comparison in a video, I think it was Gordon from PC World but saw a few on YouTube so not 100%.

Maybe at the wholesale or BOM level?

SteinFG · Jun 6, 2024

Gordon from PCWorld showed Jedec presentation, this caught my eye

CXXX is the Cheap version I assume (up to 32GB), though most people will still be fine with that.
AXXX module has the same size but it's more complex (contains 16 packages), Realistically goes to 64GB.
BXXX goes to 128GB (Maybe some will sell DDP 256GB)
DXXX will be very niche, as its only good feature is 512GB support

Kaluan · Jul 8, 2024

Question:
Since CAMM2 supposedly has dual system memory channels supported within 1 module/socket, could that mean that (with DDR6 possibly seeing it become mainstream on desktop DIY motherboards... if they "fix" the cost) we can see a 256bit/quad channel desktop system like a hypothetical mainstream AM6/Zen7 system?
I already think HEDT/WS/Server will go crazy with channels at that point. Think 32 channel 2P boards/racks or more.

DrMrLordX · Jul 9, 2024

Kaluan said:
Question:
Since CAMM2 supposedly has dual system memory channels supported within 1 module/socket, could that mean that (with DDR6 possibly seeing it become mainstream on desktop DIY motherboards... if they "fix" the cost) we can see a 256bit/quad channel desktop system like a hypothetical mainstream AM6/Zen7 system?
I already think HEDT/WS/Server will go crazy with channels at that point. Think 32 channel 2P boards/racks or more.

Unless it's a server platform, it seems more likely that they'll cut the bitrate/channel if your assessment is correct.

SteinFG · Jul 9, 2024

Kaluan said:
Question:
Since CAMM2 supposedly has dual system memory channels supported within 1 module/socket, could that mean that (with DDR6 possibly seeing it become mainstream on desktop DIY motherboards... if they "fix" the cost) we can see a 256bit/quad channel desktop system like a hypothetical mainstream AM6/Zen7 system?
I already think HEDT/WS/Server will go crazy with channels at that point. Think 32 channel 2P boards/racks or more.

Nah, we won't see workstation-level memory bandwidth on regular AM6 or whatever it's gonna be called, the main limit is the socket design and PCB complexity, not the form factor. Besides, we already have threadripper with Quad-channel mnemory and this motherboard+cpu costs just under 2000 dollars

Tech Junky · Jul 9, 2024

There's a couple of beta boards out there and of course Dell who decided to come up with the RAM pancake in the first place has a couple of systems going back to 2020? and some modules on ebay for sale.

RnR_au · Aug 18, 2024

MSI pushes CAMM2 a little...

MSI benchmarks reveal CAMM2 memory performance on par with DDR5 DIMMs

MSI's recent benchmarks pit Kingston's CAMM2 memory against standard DDR5 DIMMs on their Z790 Project Zero Plus motherboard. The results reveal surprising performance parity between the two memory formats, with only marginal differences in key metrics. This comparison offers insights into the...

www.notebookcheck.net

DrMrLordX · Aug 18, 2024

RnR_au said:
MSI pushes CAMM2 a little...

That's odd. I thought for identical memory types, CAMM2 was supposed to be clearly superior.

RnR_au · Aug 19, 2024

DrMrLordX said:
That's odd. I thought for identical memory types, CAMM2 was supposed to be clearly superior.

From my understanding CAMM2 can have lower latencies, but in this case MSI kept the latencies exactly the same as to the DIMM ram it was tested again.

I think the MSI presser above was just an educational fluff piece, but there isn't much CAMM2 news out there, so... meh

DrMrLordX · Aug 19, 2024

RnR_au said:
From my understanding CAMM2 can have lower latencies, but in this case MSI kept the latencies exactly the same as to the DIMM ram it was tested again.

I think the MSI presser above was just an educational fluff piece, but there isn't much CAMM2 news out there, so... meh

Huh. Curious. Pity they didn't do more with the demo.

DavidC1 · Sep 1, 2024

Kaluan said:
if they "fix" the cost) we can see a 256bit/quad channel desktop system like a hypothetical mainstream AM6/Zen7 system?

That doesn't change the fact that each bit requires a physical copper line on the board, so 256-bit means 256 lines from CPU to memory making routing way more complicated than 128-bit for current dual channel.

Question CAMM2 Memory specification published

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