Elon Musk now owns 9.2% of twitter...update.. will soon be the sole owner as Board of Directors accepts his purchase offer

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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,310
2,340
136
So I'm not massive on shares and things so I'm going to ask some possibly stupid questions.

Musk wants Tesla to give him $50billion?
Tesla needs shareholder approval for this?
Telsa doesnt have $50B in cash so they will issue lots of shares and give him those?
Obviously Tesla is worth the same amount before the extra shares are issued as it is after. So for those new shares to have any value value needs to transfer from the existing shares.
This would devalue the existing shares.
So voting for Elon to get the payout is a direct transfer of wealth from current shareholders to Musk? Its literally them withdrwing money from their savings and posting it to Elon.

So why would shareholders vote for that?
I believe normally shareholders don't have an explicit say in a CEO comp package; this situation arose because a Delaware judge nullified his 2018 comp package because it was rigged. Depending on how you look at it, it's not a direct transfer of wealth from shareholders to Elon. It's absolutely dilution, so to answer your final question.

Shareholders have done extremely well under Elon's tenure. Although a lot of us here feel he's made tons of mistakes these past several years and the outlook is far from rosy, other shareholders could have a different opinion on perhaps 3 issues. One, they may still have the utmost confidence in him (based on long term stock performance) and feel there's upside in the stock. Two, TSLA has arguably been a hype stock for a long time; if he leaves, the shares could plummet. And finally, and this is a smaller point, this comp package goes back to 2018. Although almost nobody believes he deserves $46B for the work he's done, the stock is still up significantly since 2018. Many investors, whether they like Elon or not, probably think he should receive some compensation that reflects the stock performance over time and its future prospects.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,790
20,147
136
I believe normally shareholders don't have an explicit say in a CEO comp package; this situation arose because a Delaware judge nullified his 2018 comp package because it was rigged. Depending on how you look at it, it's not a direct transfer of wealth from shareholders to Elon. It's absolutely dilution, so to answer your final question.

Shareholders have done extremely well under Elon's tenure. Although a lot of us here feel he's made tons of mistakes these past several years and the outlook is far from rosy, other shareholders could have a different opinion on perhaps 3 issues. One, they may still have the utmost confidence in him (based on long term stock performance) and feel there's upside in the stock. Two, TSLA has arguably been a hype stock for a long time; if he leaves, the shares could plummet. And finally, and this is a smaller point, this comp package goes back to 2018. Although almost nobody believes he deserves $46B for the work he's done, the stock is still up significantly since 2018. Many investors, whether they like Elon or not, probably think he should receive some compensation that reflects the stock performance over time and its future prospects.
The stock did well because Elon was a great hype salesman/con-man. The company is now built too much on his house of cards. Ultimately if the company has a shot, it has to rid Elon, deal with a lower stock price while they get their fundamentals right under an actual rational and not insane CEO, if they find the right one.

Short-term gain, with an ultimate total collapse, keep Elon.

Long-term gain, actual potential and solid fundamentals, get rid of Elon.
 

repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
4,528
3,441
136
Did Vanguard vote no? Do you have a link? I had assumed they would, be glad if that is true.
It was something I saw in a WSJ graph showing how institutional shareholders voted .. vanguard has like 7-8% of the shares and it had them in the no column. Can’t find it again but it ran yesterday.
 
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akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
5,824
2,083
136
The stock did well because Elon was a great hype salesman/con-man. The company is now built too much on his house of cards. Ultimately if the company has a shot, it has to rid Elon, deal with a lower stock price while they get their fundamentals right under an actual rational and not insane CEO, if they find the right one.

Short-term gain, with an ultimate total collapse, keep Elon.

Long-term gain, actual potential and solid fundamentals, get rid of Elon.

For what it's worth, I think manly's analysis is spot on, and I was going to post similar. The thinking is, Elon Musk has increased our value by an amazing percentage. If he stays at the helm, he will continue to increase it by those astronomical percentages. That's why they're willing to vote yes on a multi-billion dollar compensation package.

Now. I do agree with you, and again, I would have posted to that effect, that Musk's leadership has run its course. We're starting to see huge isues with Tesla under Musk's leadership. Quite frankly, if I were a Tesla investor or stockholder, I would be very nervous about the future of Tesla. Yes, they're still doing well, but competition is increasingly fierce

From the traditional automobile manufacturers like Ford, GM, Toyota, etc. Then we have extremely cheap EV from China to cover less prosperous nations. Staying away from market manipulation discussions from China. I'm just saying they have cheap solutions that are 1/3rd of the price of other EV's.

And under Musk, he's fired many staff from new product development and his supercharger teams. Quite frankly, the Tesla Cybertruck is a turd. At least in its first iteration. And aside from their existing product lineup, I'm not really seeing what they have new in the pipeline to interest a more diverse buyer base.
 
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DisarmedDespot

Senior member
Jun 2, 2016
589
588
136
I believe normally shareholders don't have an explicit say in a CEO comp package; this situation arose because a Delaware judge nullified his 2018 comp package because it was rigged. Depending on how you look at it, it's not a direct transfer of wealth from shareholders to Elon. It's absolutely dilution, so to answer your final question.

Shareholders have done extremely well under Elon's tenure. Although a lot of us here feel he's made tons of mistakes these past several years and the outlook is far from rosy, other shareholders could have a different opinion on perhaps 3 issues. One, they may still have the utmost confidence in him (based on long term stock performance) and feel there's upside in the stock. Two, TSLA has arguably been a hype stock for a long time; if he leaves, the shares could plummet. And finally, and this is a smaller point, this comp package goes back to 2018. Although almost nobody believes he deserves $46B for the work he's done, the stock is still up significantly since 2018. Many investors, whether they like Elon or not, probably think he should receive some compensation that reflects the stock performance over time and its future prospects.
There is zero chance Musk steps down from Tesla. It's the only one of his companies that's actually profitable, and way, wayyy too tied up in his myth. If he would tantrum and quit Tesla because shareholders voted down this deal, he's an even bigger idiot than we ever imagined.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,790
20,147
136
There is zero chance Musk steps down from Tesla. It's the only one of his companies that's actually profitable, and way, wayyy too tied up in his myth. If he would tantrum and quit Tesla because shareholders voted down this deal, he's an even bigger idiot than we ever imagined.
If he loses I can see him having a tantrum and saying he is quitting, but then try to take it back a day or two later lol
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,790
20,147
136
the shareholder meeting is on now. you can watch video but I don't think I can see that much Tesla assholeness for that long.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,790
20,147
136
Elon has 27% of the stock himself.. Not counting his allies. I'm still curious as to the numbers overall. To show how many voted against.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,308
11,675
136
Didn’t he pay $44 billion to buy his interest in the company? If so, a $56 billion payday seems like a good investment.
 

esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
23,770
4,963
146
Elon has 27% of the stock himself.. Not counting his allies. I'm still curious as to the numbers overall. To show how many voted against.

I remember reading its much less than that.

Google search gave me this.
20.5 percent

With the 2018 pay award, Mr. Musk owns 20.5 percent of Tesla, and just under 13 percent without. 3 hours ago

I remember recently reading that elmo said he "needs" to have 25% ownership in Tesla for this following reason.

"Musk has even said he would not want to grow Tesla to become a leader in artificial intelligence and robotics, as he has promised, without a compensation plan that would give him ownership of around 25% of the company's stock. That would be about double the roughly 13% stake he currently owns".3 days ago


He still doesn't have 25% ownership with the new vote for the pay-package. How is he going to get that next 5% or more?
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,790
20,147
136
The vote excludes Shares owned by elmo or his brother Kimbal.

Wow. So there are more dumb cultist Tesla stockholders than I thought, even though quite a few big institutional investors and big retail investors came out against it.

But where are the results? Was this vote audited by a third party?
 
Last edited:

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,555
24,772
136
Wow. So there are more dumb cultist Tesla stockholders than I thought, even though quite a few big institutional investors and big retail investors came out against it.

But where are the results? Was this vote audited by a third party?
Yes the firm of BF Borgers audited the results.
 

DisarmedDespot

Senior member
Jun 2, 2016
589
588
136
Beyond the pay package itself, the Delaware-to-Texas proposal is just pure looney. Delaware's super business-friendly and a tax haven, so they're going from a capped ~$200,000 franchise fee to 2.5% corporate income tax in Texas. And the court that invalidated the package, the Delaware Court of Chancery? That's specifically set aside for business cases and Texas doesn't have an equivalent, so any that Musk starts in Texas will get the back-seat to criminal ones.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,310
2,340
136
I remember reading its much less than that.

Google search gave me this.
20.5 percent

With the 2018 pay award, Mr. Musk owns 20.5 percent of Tesla, and just under 13 percent without. 3 hours ago

I remember recently reading that elmo said he "needs" to have 25% ownership in Tesla for this following reason.

"Musk has even said he would not want to grow Tesla to become a leader in artificial intelligence and robotics, as he has promised, without a compensation plan that would give him ownership of around 25% of the company's stock. That would be about double the roughly 13% stake he currently owns".3 days ago


He still doesn't have 25% ownership with the new vote for the pay-package. How is he going to get that next 5% or more?
There's nothing magical about the 25% figure. It's just his estimation of what stake he needs to retain total control of the company, against any potential interference from "activist" investors. The size of his stake hasn't prevented him from raiding Tesla's engineers to jump-start xAI. He's basically been blackmailing his own firm: pay me or I'll stop trying, or leave.


Elon's next logical move would be dual-class shares, so that he can absolutely control Tesla even if his personal stake never reaches 25%.

Breaking news: SIdney Powell Tesla reports 77% of shareholders approved his compensation package.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,648
34,477
136
Beyond the pay package itself, the Delaware-to-Texas proposal is just pure looney. Delaware's super business-friendly and a tax haven, so they're going from a capped ~$200,000 franchise fee to 2.5% corporate income tax in Texas. And the court that invalidated the package, the Delaware Court of Chancery? That's specifically set aside for business cases and Texas doesn't have an equivalent, so any that Musk starts in Texas will get the back-seat to criminal ones.

Look if there is one thing you can say about Elon Musk he carefully deliberates over every decision, extensively weighing the pros/cons and seeking comprehensive outside advice about how to proceed which he incorporates. This ensures that no rash actions are taken that could have a negative effect on his businesses due to easily foreseeable problems.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,494
12,784
136
Look if there is one thing you can say about Elon Musk he carefully deliberates over every decision, extensively weighing the pros/cons and seeking comprehensive outside advice about how to proceed which he incorporates. This ensures that no rash actions are taken that could have a negative effect on his businesses due to easily foreseeable problems.
This is an astute and fully accurate assessment of Mr. Musk's business acumen.

 
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