Discussion How are light and time related?

Jul 27, 2020
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Watching a recent movie, I pondered about the nature of light and how it affects time or does time affect light? Maybe they are one and the same thing? The past is just light rays that reached their destination long ago and the future is where the light rays will hit eventually. Am I making sense?
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,632
7,867
126
I'm not a physicist, but they aren't related at all as far as I can tell. Light has a speed limit, but so does everything else. Lightning affects time as much as thunder does.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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Isn't it peculiar that it is thought that time does not flow inside a blackhole and a blackhole is the only known entity that "eats" light? Everywhere else, light either continues on its trajectory forever or until it hits something, then light particles are scattered around but they don't stop. If they are absorbed by some material, their energy is transferred to the material's subatomic particles and that energy as far as I know, does not dissipate into nothingness. It keeps being transferred and flowing, just like time.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,534
12,658
146
Watching a recent movie, I pondered about the nature of light and how it affects time or does time affect light? Maybe they are one and the same thing? The past is just light rays that reached their destination long ago and the future is where the light rays will hit eventually. Am I making sense?
Not quite, light (photons) and time aren't really correlated in any way, in fact they're annoyingly disassociated (a bug in the simulation). Light travels the same speed as far as you can discern regardless of your speed, or direction, as compared to the path of the light.
Isn't it peculiar that it is thought that time does not flow inside a blackhole and a blackhole is the only known entity that "eats" light? Everywhere else, light either continues on its trajectory forever or until it hits something, then light particles are scattered around but they don't stop. If they are absorbed by some material, their energy is transferred to the material's subatomic particles and that energy as far as I know, does not dissipate into nothingness. It keeps being transferred and flowing, just like time.
Kinda, but the energy from the light does get covered into something else, like infrared energy, or heat for the environment, etc.

Black holes do eventually re-emit energy in the form of hawking radiation, though interestingly over the last few years new theories have emerged that better represent observations, and now we're wondering if black holes even exist.
 
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nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,489
12,781
136
You been smoking them jazz cigarettes, son? I think the past is a little more than "just light rays that reached their destination long ago". The past is whatever/whenever the interactions took place that caused those light waves/particles to make their journey from there to the observer. It seems maybe you're only considering this from an astronomical observation perspective?
 

Stopsignhank

Platinum Member
Mar 1, 2014
2,329
1,515
136
You been smoking them jazz cigarettes, son? I think the past is a little more than "just light rays that reached their destination long ago". The past is whatever/whenever the interactions took place that caused those light waves/particles to make their journey from there to the observer. It seems maybe you're only considering this from an astronomical observation perspective?
Exactly. IK you are thinking of light and not time.

I hope I tell this right. I was reading a book about Einstein. One of his thought experiments involved a train and a tennis ball, and relativity. George is on a train bouncing a tennis ball. You are on the train standing in front of George and you see the tennis ball go up and down, in a straight line. The next day George is on a train bouncing the same tennis ball, but you are on the train station while George goes by. This time you see the path of the tennis ball as a diagonal and not a straight line. Since the path of the tennis ball is the same and cannot change that means that something has to change. He deduced that time is the variable here. Mind blown.
 
Jul 27, 2020
17,724
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It seems maybe you're only considering this from an astronomical observation perspective?
Not entirely. I read that when our soul leaves, there's a cascading glow of light that can be detected throughout the intestines and some have surmised that it's the soul leaving the body. If we suppose that our soul is nothing more than light, then there is a possibility that we are all nothing but old light waves traveling through space and time and coming into existence every time cells are created.

This could mean:

1) Creation of cells involves a process that captures energy from space (left by traveling light waves).

2) If this lingering "light energy" is related to the passage of time, more lingering energy (fewer beings in existence) would result in slower passage of time, theory being that this unused energy acts as a deterrent to time.

3) More beings in existence would reduce this resistance to time hence the local time would speed up.

4) For an observer in a place with relatively little life, the place hustling and bustling with life would seem to exhibit accelerated time.

5) When scientists say millions and millions of years of evolution, it's coz there were fewer beings in existence so time was really, really slow. From our current perspective, that time seems on the order of millions of years.

6) If there is indeed no time inside a blackhole, it means that light entering a blackhole "expands" and "saturates" the virtually infinite space inside the blackhole. This light saturation prevents time from flowing at all.

7) If light rays could be made to retract over their exact path from source to destination with no further linear traversal, it could lead to time reversal. But doing so might require the intense pull of a blackhole. So in theory, do something or make something happen, create a small blackhole and then make it vanish into thin air before it is able to absorb the light rays permanently and you have a mini time machine at your disposal.

8) It follows that immortality can be achieved if a body gained the ability to create microscopic or even subatomic blackholes and make them vanish, over and over in an infinite cycle, preventing the local time inside the body from flowing normally.

9) Accelerated aging could be nothing more than light energy escaping from a body, reducing the resistance to time and causing time inside the body to accelerate and speed up decay of organic matter.

10) When we are young, it seems like we have all the time in the world. It's because we have more light "inside" us. The more light we lose with age, the more time seems to speed up for us until that very last glow in the intestines which signals complete loss of light energy, at least from the cells of our body (not the micro-organisms which still have some light in them so they get their chance at living the good life devouring the remains of the person/being).

11) We think of food as fuel that creates heat in our mitochondria and drives biochemical reactions. But this heat radiation causes an outward flow of the body's light energy, accelerating the local time and thus accelerating aging. This is why some indian gurus are able to live with just sunlight falling on their bodies. They have tuned their bodies to soak up as much light energy as possible which creates resistance to time flow inside their bodies and thus they are able to live longer without needing food because they are limiting the outward flow of energy and instead saturating their bodies with energy. In essence, they are making their bodies act as a sort of a quasi-blackhole where time becomes extremely slow.

There are definitely going to be chinks in this theory. Feel free to poke and prod and expand my knowledge and help me refine my thought process.

The past is whatever/whenever the interactions took place that caused those light waves/particles to make their journey from there to the observer.
That assumes an observer who is used to the forward direction of time. Theoretically, an observer that is able to conceive time backwards could "look" into the past. Similarly, an observer with "hyperthought" capability could peek into the future. Such hyperthought could be possible by creating microscopic blackholes in the brain that cause time to fly momentarily, affording the neurons of that person/being the capability to get glimpses of the future. In other words, a precognitive person or precog.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,489
12,781
136
Not entirely. I read that when our soul leaves, there's a cascading glow of light that can be detected throughout the intestines and some have surmised that it's the soul leaving the body. If we suppose that our soul is nothing more than light
Well, I'm going to stop right there, because that's not a supposition I'm willing to make without more data. I would also say: don't bother supplying that data, unless it's from a peer-reviewed scientific/medical journal. If you have such material, than I will accept it.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,489
12,781
136

That's all I have. But lack of data should not impede thought.
Um, I think this seems like a relevant bit of data:
"The blue fluorescence, seen only when the worms are under ultraviolet light, comes from anthranilic acid, an organic compound produced inside little granules that line the worm’s intestine."
This glow you're referring to is not an inherent emanation of light, it's the interaction of the UV light with anthranillic acid. It also follows from this that you're suggesting that these worms also possess souls. It's okay, I'm aware you're already partial to what is referred to as "woo-woo shit", to use the parlance of our times, but it's hard to engage in a serious discussion on a posited relation of light and time with someone who brings "souls" into the discussion based on dying worms glowing under a UV light, you know?
 
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BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,120
1,590
126
A photon of light does not experience any passage of time during its existence since the time would dilate infinity to 1.
It might take a photon 2 billion years to go 2 billion light years from our point of view relative to the photon. But, the photon would travel those 2 billion years in exactly/precisely 0 seconds from the point of view of the photon.
 

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
16,280
3,903
75
Exactly. IK you are thinking of light and not time.

I hope I tell this right. I was reading a book about Einstein. One of his thought experiments involved a train and a tennis ball, and relativity. George is on a train bouncing a tennis ball. You are on the train standing in front of George and you see the tennis ball go up and down, in a straight line. The next day George is on a train bouncing the same tennis ball, but you are on the train station while George goes by. This time you see the path of the tennis ball as a diagonal and not a straight line. Since the path of the tennis ball is the same and cannot change that means that something has to change. He deduced that time is the variable here. Mind blown.
This is almost right, except it's not a tennis ball. It's a light clock.



Light always moves at the same speed for all observers. So if the clock itself is moving...



...time must slow down. 🤔
 
Jul 27, 2020
17,724
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but it's hard to engage in a serious discussion on a posited relation of light and time with someone who brings "souls" into the discussion based on dying worms glowing under a UV light, you know?
So you have a soul but worms don't? That is worm discrimination.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,489
12,781
136
You certainly seem to think that "soul" has no scientific basis. But that's coz scientific research in this field is lacking.
I think you're reading a bit into my statement. You said you'd read there was a cascading glow in our intestines (presumably a misunderstanding, as the paper says that's where the worms create their anthranillic acid) when we die that represents our soul leaving the body, what you posted was about the way cell death travels through the body, and the mechanism through which this was observed was the UV fluorescence of said acid. So this doesn't support the supposition that this glow represents the soul leaving the body, as this glow was observed in worms, due to the presence of the UV light. Nowhere in this have a I made a judgment or statement on the existence of the soul itself, and it doesn't support a belief that the soul is made of light. Honestly, if souls were made of light, it seems like it would be a much easier task to detect them.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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Honestly, if souls were made of light, it seems like it would be a much easier task to detect them.
Light oscillating at a frequency and wavelength that has perhaps not been discovered yet and may not be discovered in our lifetimes. The existence of something cannot be refuted by the absence of methods to detect said existence.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,632
7,867
126
As always, it's up to the person making the assertion to provide the evidence. I say souls are farts. Once you've completely depleted your reserve of soul, you die.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,696
15,931
136
Not quite, light (photons) and time aren't really correlated in any way, in fact they're annoyingly disassociated (a bug in the simulation). Light travels the same speed as far as you can discern regardless of your speed, or direction, as compared to the path of the light.

Kinda, but the energy from the light does get covered into something else, like infrared energy, or heat for the environment, etc.

Black holes do eventually re-emit energy in the form of hawking radiation, though interestingly over the last few years new theories have emerged that better represent observations, and now we're wondering if black holes even exist.
Wut? Educate me on that last part. I’m not good at reading about that stuff but I am good at understanding explanations.
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,446
27,703
136
Does a sun dial measure the time that light left the sun or the time it arrives on earth? What if you mount the sun dial on the deck of a ship? Will the time change with the motion of the ship? Will the waves on the ocean gently rock time?
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,446
27,703
136
If one picks the second star on the left and goes straight on till dawn, that implies that one always arrives in Never Never Land at dawn, regardless of when one departs the earth. This suggests the presence of an event horizon and that Never Never Land is within a black hole.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,915
8,656
136
You certainly seem to think that "soul" has no scientific basis. But that's coz scientific research in this field is lacking.
Theres not a lot to research. Where do you start? Theres no physical presence at all and theres no physical process that needs a soul to explain it.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,915
8,656
136
This is definitely one of those "do your own research" situations! I'll report back!
(I probably won't remember)
 
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