- Mar 3, 2017
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I want the 9950X, and prefer to avoid the thread prioritization mess of the 2 CCD X3D models. It's also available earlier, and is cheaper, and more likely to work on W10.If Zen5 X3D will be released already in September, are any of you intending to buy the vanilla variant in July anyway and if so why?
Leaked slides already showed different FP width variants, why not?Yep. Thing is, parameterization of stuff like that often costs more in dev/validation than you save in an incrementally smaller core variant. AMD has been wise to mostly avoid it thus far.
I think anyone believing that Strix Zen 5 will somehow be a materially worse microarchitecture than desktop Zen 5 is going to be disappointed.
Leaked slides already showed different FP width variants, why not?
View attachment 101542
Take the 32% with someone else not me, not interested in any debate.Looking forward to "sure, Strix ST isn't a huge boost, but my +32% is totally coming on desktop!"
In case you did not notice I said possibly, because I don't state anything as fact without manuals or patchesDifferent animal. Means absolutely nothing for PRF. Do you have any evidence whatsoever that Strix core structure sizes are smaller than desktop Zen5?
Because it would be a desktop-only solution, i.e. DOA.why cant they make a top-end CPU that is pure CPU only? i.e.
- no NPU
- no GPU (not even 2CU)
- no AVX-512 (variants maybe?)
- etc
all the die area for raw compute power
why not?
- You need AVX-512 for server at the very least.
Thanks for the correction, I'm not exactly an expert in the server market. I derived my conclusion mostly from Intel debuting the AVX-512 in SKL-X. Any clue as to what market they intended to capture?For supercompute stuff, sure, but that's a tiny percentage of the market.
I've not see a lot of indication that the meat of the server market cares much about AVX (or even much about floating-point.) Maybe AI is changing that, but if so, it's slow going.
Thanks for the correction, I'm not exactly an expert in the server market. I derived my conclusion mostly from Intel debuting the AVX-512 in SKL-X. Any clue as to what market they intended to capture?
AMD, I think, has generally understood this well. They have not been as aggressive as Intel on vector resources
The obsession with AI might be changing that.
If that's why it is a true misapplication. VNNI will be completely outclassed by any proper matrix extension like AMX.The obsession with AI might be changing that.
Well, what would be the practical problem of 2 CCD X3D on Zen5? Are you expecting it to perform worse than the corresponding vanilla variant?I want the 9950X, and prefer to avoid the thread prioritization mess of the 2 CCD X3D models. It's also available earlier, and is cheaper, and more likely to work on W10.
And while I guess it could happen, I would not count on the X3D lineup being available in september.
Since we have the next gen zen 6 mobile and desktop having the same CCD, rather than desktop and server up until now, I think we could have a situation where zen 6 desktop chips don't have AVX 512 as that server only. This could be the only desktop gen that wide.If that's why it is a true misapplication. VNNI will be completely outclassed by any proper matrix extension like AMX.
FP512 seems more fit for supercomputer contracts. But for whatever reason all the CCD based products get it.
OK, first, as said, AI may be changing that, since I have read that avx-512 is quite useful there. Next, it may be niche, but in the DC community, just in ONE projects of hundreds, There are almost 1000 users that participated in the last event alone, and many of those have 10-20 PCs , and avx-512 is very useful for this project. Even if all 1000 had 20 PCs, all Zen 4 based, I realize that is only 20,000 desktops, but if you multiply that by the other projects, this alone may be 100,000 PC in the market for it, worldwide. I think thats a little more than a tiny percentage. That not not included workstations that may benefit from it. My numbers may not be exactly accurate, but again, its a little more than a tiny percentage.For supercompute stuff, sure, but that's a tiny percentage of the market.
I've not see a lot of indication that the meat of the server market cares much about AVX (or even much about floating-point.) Maybe AI is changing that, but if so, it's slow going.
I've been a pessimist, but I'm surprised that Zen 5 actually has 5% worse IPC than Zen 4 in many places according to that credible leak. Pair that with the expected clock regression due to a wider core and...yeah. This is shaping up to be just as bad as Bulldozer, complete with being consistently outperformed by last generation's product.
This is silly. Any major microarchitectural change has outlier code streams that don't like it. Zen 5 is not shaping up to be any kind of a disaster.
I'd remind you that Bulldozer was lagging Intel competition by 20%+ for ST int.
To add. For this one project, here are the total participating users and computers:OK, first, as said, AI may be changing that, since I have read that avx-512 is quite useful there. Next, it may be niche, but in the DC community, just in ONE projects of hundreds, There are almost 1000 users that participated in the last event alone, and many of those have 10-20 PCs , and avx-512 is very useful for this project. Even if all 1000 had 20 PCs, all Zen 4 based, I realize that is only 20,000 desktops, but if you multiply that by the other projects, this alone may be 100,000 PC in the market for it, worldwide. I think thats a little more than a tiny percentage. That not not included workstations that may benefit from it. My numbers may not be exactly accurate, but again, its a little more than a tiny percentage.
User Count | 355 157 |
Host Count | 859 486 |
A GPU is useful for a few reasons. It was a welcome addition to Zen 4.why cant they make a top-end CPU that is pure CPU only? i.e.
- no NPU
- no GPU (not even 2CU)
- no AVX-512 (variants maybe?)
- etc
all the die area for raw compute power
why not?
Because it would be a desktop-only solution, i.e. DOA.
Desktop is a niche market.
- You need an NPU to get the Copilot+ sticker;
- You need the iGPU for thin&light laptops to drive down the costs and power;
- You need AVX-512 for server at the very least.
edit: not even a desktop-only solution actually, a Gamer Desktop™. You can get away with an iGPU on desktop if you're using the PC as a workstation.