Texas Grid is on the Edge Again!

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nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,582
7,808
136
No matter what, it seems we will never have enough power to run all of the AI. The is not going to end well for the planet if this can't be done with non-carbon/non nuclear power. Am I missing something. Is this really a must do thing?

AI has practical applications, but humanity, being humanity, will use it as one tool in its vast arsenal to destroy the environment so a few people can profit from it.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,649
43,831
136
No matter what, it seems we will never have enough power to run all of the AI. The is not going to end well for the planet if this can't be done with non-carbon/non nuclear power. Am I missing something. Is this really a must do thing?

Ah not to worry, Elon is here to help?

 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,090
15,753
126
Texas: We have a power supply shortage and we are not tied to the national grid. What can we do to mitigate this?

Oh I know, let's invite big power users like crypto farm and AI data centers! They'll surely use less power!
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Ajay and iRONic

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,677
34,509
136
Texas: We have a power supply ahortage and we are not tied to the national grid. What can we do to mitigate this?

Oh I know, let's invite big power users like crypto farm and AI data centers! They'll surely use less power!

I love how the crypto miners there are making a lot of their money by simply dialing down their stuff when power prices in ERCOT inevitably rocket through the ceiling. They sell pre-purchased power back to the grid for a windfall and regular ratepayers are stuck with the bills. Really a perfect encapsulation of how Texas works generally.
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
5,830
2,086
136
I love how the crypto miners there are making a lot of their money by simply dialing down their stuff when power prices in ERCOT inevitably rocket through the ceiling. They sell pre-purchased power back to the grid for a windfall and regular ratepayers are stuck with the bills. Really a perfect encapsulation of how Texas works generally.

I'll shorten it for you.

Big business screws over consumers. That's the Texas Way! Freedumb!

Because let's face it, it's not just crypto miners or big data centers, conservatives allow big business to get away with murder.
 
Reactions: hal2kilo

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,456
1,659
136
This is why without real regulations on data centers and more importantly transportation we will never get anywhere near carbon neutral.

Also need federal solar freedom laws that allow anyone to install solar on their property.

Who is being prevented from installing solar on their property?
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,456
1,659
136
A lot of areas with restrictive regulations on ‘neighborhood character’ and such argue that solar panels distract from the aesthetic and therefore should be banned.

It’s an extremely stupid argument but it’s definitely one people make.

HOA regulations? There are multiple states that have passed laws which prohibit HOA's from banning solar installations.
I don't think we need a federal regulation around this. If we want to encourage residential roof-top solar. I would argue we should be looking at why US residential solar installs cost so much as compared to other countries and looking at ways that we can bring down those costs.

Why Solar Is Cheaper in Australia Than America
 
Reactions: iRONic

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,677
34,509
136
HOA regulations? There are multiple states that have passed laws which prohibit HOA's from banning solar installations.
I don't think we need a federal regulation around this. If we want to encourage residential roof-top solar. I would argue we should be looking at why US residential solar installs cost so much as compared to other countries and looking at ways that we can bring down those costs.

Why Solar Is Cheaper in Australia Than America

Not just HOAs. Fire code, historic districts, and other stuff gets in the way. This is mostly an issue on the eastern seaboard AFAIK though.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,562
12,674
146
HOA regulations? There are multiple states that have passed laws which prohibit HOA's from banning solar installations.
I don't think we need a federal regulation around this. If we want to encourage residential roof-top solar. I would argue we should be looking at why US residential solar installs cost so much as compared to other countries and looking at ways that we can bring down those costs.

Why Solar Is Cheaper in Australia Than America
Federal law would go a long way toward showing that the govt doesn't intend on letting people decide if they participate in the future.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,460
27,721
136
Arizona already has a “solar freedom” law, it works. Cost is the biggest limiting factor for residential installation. We’ve run the numbers several times over the years and we would never recoup the cost of installing solar and we average 360 days of sunshine per year.
 
Reactions: iRONic

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,805
10,221
136
Who is being prevented from installing solar on their property?
Me currently. Many (probably most) HOAs ban solar panels. Also in my city, we are a "non-generating Co-Op" so our energy supplier OG&E will only allow us to produce up to 1% of peak electric via solar. I am sure many cities also have zoning/ordinances that prevent solar installation.

In my HOA I'm even the head of the architecture review board, but the main HOA board itself won't let me approve any panels.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,677
34,509
136
Arizona already has a “solar freedom” law, it works. Cost is the biggest limiting factor for residential installation. We’ve run the numbers several times over the years and we would never recoup the cost of installing solar and we average 360 days of sunshine per year.

Payback time is going to be different for each situation. My dad should have done it a few years ago when they re-did the flat roof membrane because he'd be coming up on payoff soon. They have quite a bit of load though.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,805
10,221
136
HOA regulations? There are multiple states that have passed laws which prohibit HOA's from banning solar installations.
I don't think we need a federal regulation around this. If we want to encourage residential roof-top solar. I would argue we should be looking at why US residential solar installs cost so much as compared to other countries and looking at ways that we can bring down those costs.

Why Solar Is Cheaper in Australia Than America
The problem is only "multiple states" have passed solar freedom laws. We need all states to have them.

A bunch of big and sunny states still lack guaranteed access: https://palmetto.com/policy/solar-access-laws-by-state
 
Reactions: iRONic

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,566
24,783
136
Me currently. Many (probably most) HOAs ban solar panels. Also in my city, we are a "non-generating Co-Op" so our energy supplier OG&E will only allow us to produce up to 1% of peak electric via solar. I am sure many cities also have zoning/ordinances that prevent solar installation. .
Michigan had this same issue. I couldn’t get a solar company to quote an install because Consumers could veto anything grid tied if there was already 1% installed. They recently increased it to 10%. But companies hat home solar because they don’t get to make a guaranteed return off the investment. They are ok with installing solar they own because of the future earnings.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,456
1,659
136
Me currently. Many (probably most) HOAs ban solar panels. Also in my city, we are a "non-generating Co-Op" so our energy supplier OG&E will only allow us to produce up to 1% of peak electric via solar. I am sure many cities also have zoning/ordinances that prevent solar installation.

In my HOA I'm even the head of the architecture review board, but the main HOA board itself won't let me approve any panels.

In CA never had a problem with HOA's and solar panels. In CA new homes are required to have solar panels.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,456
1,659
136
Not just HOAs. Fire code, historic districts, and other stuff gets in the way. This is mostly an issue on the eastern seaboard AFAIK though.

The video I linked goes into this with a bit more detail. In Australia you can fill out a permit request on your cell phone and have the permit approved 24-hours later. Which significantly reduces the cost of getting a permit. A complicated permitting process can significantly increase your cost.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,677
34,509
136
A complicated permitting process can significantly increase your cost.

The state government here is coming around to recognizing that long permitting processes are in fact bad for a lot of things. They just tightened ADU permits to 60 days which can't be denied without specific cause/suggested remedies to fix any deficiencies. Crazy that people have had to sit for 6-8 months waiting for the paperwork and just watch their labor and materials costs creep up.

Now just need to kill off CEQA for infill housing and transit projects...
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,562
12,674
146
Btw on the topic of solar, everyone here should look into a solar co-op if ones available if you have not. Virtually every one of them in my area offer essentially a flat discount on our electric bill (15% I think?) for using them instead of the local power company. Nobody has to show up, just fill out some paperwork and you're using cheaper power from then on. There's usually referral bonuses too if you want to shill for them.
 
Jun 18, 2000
11,140
722
126
Arizona already has a “solar freedom” law, it works. Cost is the biggest limiting factor for residential installation. We’ve run the numbers several times over the years and we would never recoup the cost of installing solar and we average 360 days of sunshine per year.

That's bonkers. Payback here is in the 15 year range and it's a cold climate. Is it that way where you are because of install costs, cheap electric already, or because you use so much energy because it's so hot (or all the above)?
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,460
27,721
136
That's bonkers. Payback here is in the 15 year range and it's a cold climate. Is it that way where you are because of install costs, cheap electric already, or because you use so much energy because it's so hot (or all the above)?
Install costs are high, electric rates are pretty reasonable, and we don't use a lot of electricity. Our five year average monthly electric bill is $87 and $107 for the past year, which was an exceptionally hot year. Of that, $28/month is a flat fee for being connected to the utility so the energy costs were $59 and $79 respectively. The fee would remain even if the net grid electric power usage were zero or below. Payback period is roughly eighteen years for us.
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,638
4,114
136
HOA regulations? There are multiple states that have passed laws which prohibit HOA's from banning solar installations.
I don't think we need a federal regulation around this. If we want to encourage residential roof-top solar. I would argue we should be looking at why US residential solar installs cost so much as compared to other countries and looking at ways that we can bring down those costs.

Why Solar Is Cheaper in Australia Than America
In CA never had a problem with HOA's and solar panels. In CA new homes are required to have solar panels.
We don't need no federal regulations, but here in CA they have regulations which I agree with....
 
Reactions: Ajay and Zorba
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