P&Ns middle name is and

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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,264
8,192
136
You’d be wrong. You can support a just cause but get the fix incorrect. Liberals, at least in my life time, have been willing to correct mistakes they’ve made (see the 90’s crime bill) or fix mistakes republicans have made (see the ACA and its provisions to close Medicare part D donut hole gap closure). In the US I’ve never seen a sustained movement to be overly nationalistic, in fact liberals can be overly critical of the US and its policies no matter who is in office (see Iraq war, Guantanamo Bay, lots of foreign policies).

On the contrary, nationalism is unusually pervasive in the US, compared to many countries. The trouble is Americans can't see it, because it's in the very air that they breath, it's so normalised that it's invisible to them, they can only see that of other countries (you've probably never seen it because it's just normal for you - you probably call it 'patriotism', even though that's the exact same thing - "patriotism" is simply what people call their nationalism when they don't want to admit what it is).

The _left_ is anti-nationalist, but the left is a pretty small element in the US.

Liberals tend to buy into the nationalism quite strongly (e.g. Biden's boast about the US being unique in being 'founded on an idea" - pure American Exceptionalism - or the previous posters' previously-expressed view that all that's wrong with the US is the mysterious presence of a few 'bad people' who have become bad for unfathomable reasons, that have nothing to do with US history and culture, and that there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the seriously broken US political system).


Dwight D. Eisenhower was a Republican from Kansas. His progressive stance only extended to social issues, everything else quite conservative. I'd call him a moderate, but by today's standards he'd certainly have no place in the GQP.

Wilson was no liberal, he was a racist segregationist.

Not sure who mentioned Eisenhower. It was JFK who got the US seriously embroiled in Vietnam.

As for Wilson, that's the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Yes he was pretty racist, but liberals can be racist and often were in the past, because liberals tend to be very conservative.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,465
27,736
136
On the contrary, nationalism is unusually pervasive in the US, compared to many countries. The trouble is Americans can't see it, because it's in the very air that they breath, it's so normalised that it's invisible to them, they can only see that of other countries (you've probably never seen it because it's just normal for you - you probably call it 'patriotism', even though that's the exact same thing - "patriotism" is simply what people call their nationalism when they don't want to admit what it is).

The _left_ is anti-nationalist, but the left is a pretty small element in the US.

Liberals tend to buy into the nationalism quite strongly (e.g. Biden's boast about the US being unique in being 'founded on an idea" - pure American Exceptionalism - or the previous posters' previously-expressed view that all that's wrong with the US is the mysterious presence of a few 'bad people' who have become bad for unfathomable reasons, that have nothing to do with US history and culture, and that there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the seriously broken US political system).




Not sure who mentioned Eisenhower. It was JFK who got the US seriously embroiled in Vietnam.

As for Wilson, that's the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Yes he was pretty racist, but liberals can be racist and often were in the past, because liberals tend to be very conservative.
You’re using “liberal” in the classical sense which is confusing to Americans who use the term to mean someone who is moderate right to slightly left. In American usage, a liberal would be a New Deal supporter or a Bernie Sanders supporter, not a free market purist.
 

Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
9,359
12,716
146
He's always the biggliest, most wounded, best victim ever. Especially when he was never endangered, much less attacked.

 

Ken g6

Programming Moderator, Elite Member
Moderator
Dec 11, 1999
16,280
3,903
75
View attachment 101744

lol...

BUT HEY...at least he speaks in complete sentences, amirite? Oh, wait...
Apparently this is about one of his favorite poems called The Snake. Similar to the story of the scorpion and the frog. I guess this is about his electric boat and shark rant and how all electricity will electrocute you in the end?

Let's see him throw out his smartphone first.
 
Reactions: Pohemi
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