“Project 2025”: Conservative master plan to end democracy?

BoomerD · Sunday at 4:23 AM

IMO, we really don't have democracy beyond the local levels. "We the people" "get" to vote for people who are chosen by the big money donors. Our choices are limited by design.
Sure, you can write in "Joe Citizen" or whomever you want, but that's just a wasted vote in our two party system At best, we are allowed to vote for the pre-chosen candidate we either like more than the other guy...or the pre-chosen candidate we hate less than the other guy. THEY give us the "choice" of candidates they have chosen for us.

Yes, I'm very cynical about our political system...but, maybe I shouldn't be...after all, it's the best money can (and does) buy.

ch33zw1z · Sunday at 5:10 AM

Indus said:
Basically Trump and Republicans are trying to turn America into Russia where there's no one who can stop what they do and they'll win every election for ever!

I’m at not so much Trump, as the conservative movement is on this project 2025 trajectory with or without him. Look at the last 50 years, conservatives are sick and tired of being told they can’t force their views onto others, and they want that privileged honor back.

cytg111 · Sunday at 6:37 AM

Indus said:
Basically Trump and Republicans are trying to turn America into Russia where there's no one who can stop what they do and they'll win every election for ever!

100% this.

And 10 years later there will be a war with Europe that we cannot possibly win.

cytg111 · Sunday at 6:42 AM

BoomerD said:
IMO, we really don't have democracy beyond the local levels. "We the people" "get" to vote for people who are chosen by the big money donors. Our choices are limited by design.
Sure, you can write in "Joe Citizen" or whomever you want, but that's just a wasted vote in our two party system At best, we are allowed to vote for the pre-chosen candidate we either like more than the other guy...or the pre-chosen candidate we hate less than the other guy. THEY give us the "choice" of candidates they have chosen for us.

Yes, I'm very cynical about our political system...but, maybe I shouldn't be...after all, it's the best money can (and does) buy.

There is a pound of truth to that BUT the fact that you got the D in 2016 suggests that your democracy is in fact running intact. It's just that a democracy as a governing principle functions best with a literal capable populace.

You gotta start fucking boosting your educational system and boot Fox off the earth.

Indus · Sunday at 8:19 AM

cytg111 said:
There is a pound of truth to that BUT the fact that you got the D in 2016 suggests that your democracy is in fact running intact. It's just that a democracy as a governing principle functions best with a literal capable populace.

You gotta start fucking boosting your educational system and boot Fox off the earth.

Hahahaha you do know the first prioritize of project 2025 is to make Fox news the official channel and shown on all government buildings and schools are massively defunded so the education level is massively lowered right?

Sounds exactly like Pol Pot.. anyone with an education who isn't a farmer is going to be sent to the Killing Fields where they don't come out of.

Indus · Sunday at 8:46 AM

Jaskalas said:
I was generally undecided for a period of time spanning Bush's betrayal up until Trump 2016.

The Iraq war created a lot of angst among conservatives. But for them to use that to turn populist and fascist. Yes, there was a moment where that may have appealed to me as well. An option to drink the kool-aid for a "change" among the party. More hardliner, more "pure". Less Bush. But they incessantly lie on economics... and just about everything else. Trump kept lying on the campaign trail, promising everything to everyone. Still waiting for that beautiful healthcare plan, eh?

I kept hoping for a more vibrant backlash at the ballot box. A crushing defeat that would shake MAGA off the Republican Party. It never happened. Trump may have lost 2020, but Biden only won enough power to get stuck holding the bag. A fucking disaster whose only silver lining is that Trump was (temporarily) no longer President. Two impeachments, okay whatever...that's political. But Jan 6th? Republicans endorse that. They want their own VP murdered for following the law and honoring an election result. They wanted a coup. That's not politics anymore. That is violence. That is war.

For them to ever hold power again is... existential.

We have come a long ways from 2017 where I called for calm. Our Democracy is under attack from within and "project 2025" is a declaration of war. Their efforts on Jan 6th were just the beginning.

Very insightful post.

What really bugs me is it's all true and the "middle" (although it's called the far left makes so many self inflicted errors.

We've got to come up with real solutions on stuff that pisses people off and drives em to fascists..

Maybe this is a start..

ch33zw1z · Sunday at 8:48 AM

Indus said:
Very insightful post.

What really bugs me is it's all true and the "middle" (although it's called the far left makes so many self inflicted errors.

We've got to come up with real solutions on stuff that pisses people off and drives em to fascists..

Maybe this is a start..

What really bugs me is that people couldnt see this 10+ years ago. The pieces have been moving into place for decades, and it’s all the same as fascists before them. Calls for calm and insightful review don’t mean shit when the GOP has been consistently moving to assure power and abandon democracy out in the open since America elected a black guy

Indus · Sunday at 8:53 AM

ch33zw1z said:
What really bugs me is that people couldnt see this 10+ years ago. The pieces have been moving into place for decades, and it’s all the same as fascists before them. Calls for calm and insightful review don’t mean shit when the GOP has been consistently moving to assure power and abandon democracy out in the open since America elected a black guy

I think we know at this point..

THERE WILL BE BLOOD!

Only question is which side gives up first?

ch33zw1z · Sunday at 9:09 AM

Indus said:
I think we know at this point..

THERE WILL BE BLOOD!

Only question is which side gives up first?

Gives up? Or is violently beaten into submission?

gothuevos · Sunday at 9:44 AM

Indus said:
We've got to come up with real solutions on stuff that pisses people off and drives em to fascists..

It's the uncomfortable question that apparently nobody has an answer for.

How come after the last 8 years of Trump the Dems have only been able to barely scrape by tiny majorities? Where is the large scale repudiation of Trump from the electorate?

Is America just sick, or are Dems also failing to deliver a winning message? Or both?

gothuevos · Sunday at 9:46 AM

Indus said:
Hahahaha you do know the first prioritize of project 2025 is to make Fox news the official channel and shown on all government buildings and schools are massively defunded so the education level is massively lowered right?

Sounds exactly like Pol Pot.. anyone with an education who isn't a farmer is going to be sent to the Killing Fields where they don't come out of.

Best hope against Project 2025 at this point is for Dems to flip the House and gum up the works as much as they can. Won't stop Trump's hires and EOs, but controlling the House can go a long ways to slowing things down.

eelw · Sunday at 10:42 AM

gothuevos said:
It's the uncomfortable question that apparently nobody has an answer for.

How come after the last 8 years of Trump the Dems have only been able to barely scrape by tiny majorities? Where is the large scale repudiation of Trump from the electorate?

Is America just sick, or are Dems also failing to deliver a winning message? Or both?

Explain how with the gerrymandered districts and the filibuster could the Dems do anything? This requires the participation of the other side. Simply writing in Reagan isn't helping.

K1052 · Sunday at 10:53 AM

gothuevos said:
It's the uncomfortable question that apparently nobody has an answer for.

How come after the last 8 years of Trump the Dems have only been able to barely scrape by tiny majorities? Where is the large scale repudiation of Trump from the electorate?

Is America just sick, or are Dems also failing to deliver a winning message? Or both?

Democrats are not winning enough after absolutely nuking the Republican house majority in 2018 and obtaining a trifecta in 2020 by pushing an incumbent president out of power and winning four senate seats in AZ and GA is certainly a take.

HomerJS · Sunday at 12:21 PM

BoomerD said:
IMO, we really don't have democracy beyond the local levels. "We the people" "get" to vote for people who are chosen by the big money donors. Our choices are limited by design.
Sure, you can write in "Joe Citizen" or whomever you want, but that's just a wasted vote in our two party system At best, we are allowed to vote for the pre-chosen candidate we either like more than the other guy...or the pre-chosen candidate we hate less than the other guy. THEY give us the "choice" of candidates they have chosen for us.

Yes, I'm very cynical about our political system...but, maybe I shouldn't be...after all, it's the best money can (and does) buy.

Gerrymandering ensures we don’t have it even at the local level. People only get their wishes by referendum as demonstrated by all the abortion votes.

No better examples then failure to enact gun safety and ending Roe

HomerJS · Sunday at 12:23 PM

If you are in the mood to shit your pants check out this interview with the President of the Heritage Foundation, one of the P2025 architects. Not only are the plans scary listen how this guy lies, obfuscates and misleads yet idiots believe him.

JTsyo · Sunday at 1:59 PM

ch33zw1z said:
What really bugs me is that people couldnt see this 10+ years ago. The pieces have been moving into place for decades, and it’s all the same as fascists before them. Calls for calm and insightful review don’t mean shit when the GOP has been consistently moving to assure power and abandon democracy out in the open since America elected a black guy

There's the quote by David Frum

If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy.

MtnMan · Sunday at 2:02 PM

Not in the mood to wade through 900+ pages, here is a perhaps a useful highlight reel, with suggestions how to search the document for issues that you find interesting or trigger points.

The searchable PDF --------> https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf

nickqt · Sunday at 4:11 PM

Some of the people on the "far" left have been shouting about this for 50+ years. The exact path can never be 100% known, but the trajectory has been crystal clear for my entire adult political life.

Again, I'm just going to throw it out there: safely owning and knowing how to operate a firearm (yes, this is 100% possible) is not an inherently evil thing. It won't mind control you into mass shooting up your favorite grocery store or local elementary school. And while it can be a little pricey to have a gun, safe and some ammo, it's an investment as I can assure you the price of any of the items will not be getting cheaper as long as government fiat currency has any value, not to mention the items themselves have inherent non-currency value if/when government fiat is worthless.

Y'all are reading the writing on the wall here, and yet are whistling right past the graveyard on what might be necessary if the Democratic Party is unable to win every single election until the end of time...to mix up some salient metaphors just for fun on this here writing-based comms board.

No, don't go LARP at Costco. No, you're not going to be fighting a Company of the US military. You're going to have to defend yourselves from Meal Team 6 acting under color of law terrorizing your communities, because daddy Trump or Hawley or Vance aren't going to give the order to stop Meal Team 6. And you can joke about Meal Team 6, but they have the gear, they LARP with it at home and at the range which is more training than you, and they're just stupid enough to be useful pawns. Black shirts, brown shirts, silver shirts...MAGA hats/Khaki pants, whatever they eventually get labeled, it's all the same shit.

[DHT]Osiris · Sunday at 4:26 PM

nickqt said:
Some of the people on the "far" left have been shouting about this for 50+ years. The exact path can never be 100% known, but the trajectory has been crystal clear for my entire adult political life.

Again, I'm just going to throw it out there: safely owning and knowing how to operate a firearm (yes, this is 100% possible) is not an inherently evil thing. It won't mind control you into mass shooting up your favorite grocery store or local elementary school. And while it can be a little pricey to have a gun, safe and some ammo, it's an investment as I can assure you the price of any of the items will not be getting cheaper as long as government fiat currency has any value, not to mention the items themselves have inherent non-currency value if/when government fiat is worthless.

Y'all are reading the writing on the wall here, and yet are whistling right past the graveyard on what might be necessary if the Democratic Party is unable to win every single election until the end of time...to mix up some salient metaphors just for fun on this here writing-based comms board.

No, don't go LARP at Costco. No, you're not going to be fighting a Company of the US military. You're going to have to defend yourselves from Meal Team 6 acting under color of law terrorizing your communities, because daddy Trump or Hawley or Vance aren't going to give the order to stop Meal Team 6. And you can joke about Meal Team 6, but they have the gear, they LARP with it at home and at the range which is more training than you, and they're just stupid enough to be useful pawns. Black shirts, brown shirts, silver shirts...MAGA hats/Khaki pants, whatever they eventually get labeled, it's all the same shit.

And a small number of them can terrorize an unarmed community. To trot out the quote again, God made man, Colt made them equal.

FelixDeCat · Sunday at 6:10 PM

The sky is falling! They are trying to get rid of bureaucracy (and deep state left wing interferists).

What is so scary about that?

IronWing · Sunday at 6:14 PM

FelixDeCat said:
The sky is falling! They are trying to get rid of bureaucracy (and deep state left wing interferists).

What is so scary about that?

Fuck off, traitor.

nickqt · Sunday at 6:55 PM

FelixDeCat said:
The sky is falling! They are trying to get rid of bureaucracy (and deep state left wing interferists).

What is so scary about that?

Downplay it while you can, collaborator. Responsibility comes later.

brycejones · Sunday at 7:06 PM

nickqt said:
Downplay it while you can, collaborator. Responsibility comes later.

Deport them to the new country of Mississippi.

FelixDeCat · Sunday at 7:22 PM

^ Seriously, all I am seeing is histrionics.

Why do you love bureaucracy?

FelixDeCat · Sunday at 7:24 PM

HomerJS said:
If you are in the mood to shit your pants check out this interview with the President of the Heritage Foundation, one of the P2025 architects. Not only are the plans scary listen how this guy lies, obfuscates and misleads yet idiots believe him.

Everyone knows I do not support Trump. But what the guy from the Heritage foundation described is common sense reform.

“Project 2025”: Conservative master plan to end democracy?

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