Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

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KompuKare

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,069
1,108
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Awesome, thank you! This confirms my previous suspicions that the Omnibook X was efficiency-oriented.

That being said, I have determined that I must be a very heavy battery user. I'm getting between 6h~10hr w/ this Omnibook X, which is better than anything I've ever used before, but I was really hoping to hit ~ 15hr, 16hr AT LEAST. I mean, they claim up to 26 hours - idk if we will ever actually get there for anything more than video playback...
Do you run with the screen extra bright? That could a huge battery drainer.

Regarding trackpads: Obviously totally unfashionable and pretty impossible in ever thinner laptops, but IMO track points - a la IBM ThinkPad "sticks" - are the only good laptop mouse controllers.

When typing the last thing I want is to move my hands to use the mouse to click on some minor thing. When not typing and doing mouse things, is rather use a proper mouse.
 

FlameTail

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2021
3,146
1,792
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I went back to this:
The X Elite and X Plus chips, used for Windows on ARM (WOA), will reach about 2 million unit shipments in 2024, with expected year-on-year growth of at least 100–200% in 2025. The X Elite and X Plus will have modified versions in 2025, with a reduction in end product prices. Additionally, Qualcomm plans to launch a low-cost WOA processor codenamed Canim for mainstream models (priced between $599–799) in 4Q25. This low-cost chip, manufactured on TSMC’s N4 node, will retain the same AI processing power as the X Elite and X Plus (40 TOPS).
That bit is very interesting. What kind of modifications are we talking?

This will certainly not feature Oryon V2. Why? We know from leaked Dell roadmap that Oryon V2 is coming only in 2025H2 at the earliest. I am guessing 2025Q4 is most likely- which is when the Snapdragon Summit is held. Adroc says laptops with Oryon V2 will be on shelves in 2026Q1.
So based on this info, and the way Ming Chi Kuo has stuck that statement in his paragraph, my understanding is that this modified X Elite/X Plus is coming sometime in 2025H1.

Okay, so we have established that it won't have Oryon V2. So that means it must have a modified Oryon V1.

This would be something akin to Zen -> Zen+. Zen+ wasn't a wholly new architecture, but it was a quick iteration that fixed some issues in Zen.

If...as some of you speculate, Oryon V1 in the current X Elite is broken in RDNA3-style; then these modified X Elite chips could be coming with the fixes to it (presumably these fixes are also implemented in the Oryon CPU of 8 Gen 4).

Those fixes + reduction in prices would be great make for a nice half-gen refresh that would keep Qualcomm's offerings competitive in the 2025 landscape of mobile CPUs.

Now of course this is speculation on my part, so take my words with a truck of salt.
 

Doug S

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2020
2,479
4,036
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Cellular is too expensive anyway. No one wants to worry about their bill going up while browsing the internet, hence the preference for WiFi.

At least in the US, unlimited tethering is pretty much standard now. So what would be the benefit of having cellular in my laptop, even if it didn't cost anything?
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,794
11,143
136
An interesting analysis of the Dell leak (which happened a few months ago). I don't think it was posted here then, so now I am posting it. There's some juicy details, including stuff about the PMIC-fiasco (It is real!)..

Wow, Qualcomm somehow managed to lose money by being forced to subsidize OEMs buying Qualcomm's proprietary PMICs? How stupid is that? Let's hope they end that policy as quickly as possible.
 

podspi

Golden Member
Jan 11, 2011
1,980
101
106
It was not in 7 months. It was developed for several years as always.
What clearly happened is that M3 was pushed back a lot due to process delay, almost to the point where M4 was ready. There was originally going to be much shorter gap between the M1 and M3 architecture and thus larger gap between what is now M3 and M4, that's all.
That's pretty clear given how Apple went three years without a new performance core before that. There's roughly 4 years between M1 and M4, so it was clearly intended to be closer to ~2 years spacing between new architecture originally. And both of those new uarchs (M3, M4) show single-percent IPC uplift.

Those 18-24months gaps are pretty much what AMD does, and the IPC, well. Apple owes the lion's share of their success after M1 to clock speeds chasing, which may be that effect of starting from low level, but also having the tailwind of being the richest kid on the block with most reckless customers so they can afford the node upgrade goodies 1-2 years before the rest.
Exactly, I'm not sure why Apple would do what they did on purpose. Typically you want products to be on sale long enough to pay back the investment to create and produce them in the first place. MTL is the same story, imho.
Do you run with the screen extra bright? That could a huge battery drainer.

Regarding trackpads: Obviously totally unfashionable and pretty impossible in ever thinner laptops, but IMO track points - a la IBM ThinkPad "sticks" - are the only good laptop mouse controllers.

When typing the last thing I want is to move my hands to use the mouse to click on some minor thing. When not typing and doing mouse things, is rather use a proper mouse.
Guilty as charged. Screen on full brightness (although in my defense, the Omnibook only has a 300 nit screen so it isn't like I'm blasting my eyes with bright light) and lots of multitasking. I will say last night I was just doing some light browsing and I hit 21 hrs estimated battery life, and that was still with full brightness!

I also prefer tracksticks, but alas most PCs do not have them.
At least in the US, unlimited tethering is pretty much standard now. So what would be the benefit of having cellular in my laptop, even if it didn't cost anything?
Nothing, AFAICT. The number of times I have needed network connectivity and haven't had my cell with me is ... maybe zero? I have had issues where I had no service, but I don't think a modem in the laptop itself would have helped in that case.
View attachment 101750Canim may be made on TSMC's more economical N4C node.
View attachment 101749
Crazy what we consider 'low-end' these days. I remember when the first quad-core laptops came out and I was like 😲. Of course, I also remember when I upgraded to an absolutely decadent 768mb of RAM as well and remember thinking I'd never need any more.
 
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Ghostsonplanets

Senior member
Mar 1, 2024
539
944
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Crazy what we consider 'low-end' these days. I remember when the first quad-core laptops came out and I was like 😲. Of course, I also remember when I upgraded to an absolutely decadent 768mb of RAM as well and remember thinking I'd never need any more.
Extremely cheap consumer devices are basically using Ryzen 5500U or Intel Core i3 1215U currently. Both are extremely capable SoCs for the price you can buy devices with them.

It's indeed a wild leap over what we used to have 5 to 10 years back. In the following years, we'll see even more low-end love with QCOM Canim, AMD Sonoma Valley and Kraken 2, Intel PTL U. Absolutely good stuff for cheap price.
 

POWER4

Junior Member
May 25, 2024
18
13
36
Extremely cheap consumer devices are basically using Ryzen 5500U or Intel Core i3 1215U currently. Both are extremely capable SoCs for the price you can buy devices with them.

It's indeed a wild leap over what we used to have 5 to 10 years back. In the following years, we'll see even more low-end love with QCOM Canim, AMD Sonoma Valley and Kraken 2, Intel PTL U. Absolutely good stuff for cheap price.
I remember the early days of Celeron. You could not do anything with it. Then I used some last-gen Celeron two years ago, and it was impressive how well it held on many tasks.
 
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POWER4

Junior Member
May 25, 2024
18
13
36
Linus Tech Tips agrees that the naming scheme for Snapdragon X SKUs is not good:

He was not joking when he said it was "easy" taking their money just to make a video with the computers. Poor Qualcomm fools!

I disagree that SKUs are "customer-facing" in any way. Qualcomm wants to pull an Apple here and have X Elite, X Plus, and X (and more) plus some "don't care about what you're getting exactly". They were just terrible at delivering it.
 

Ghostsonplanets

Senior member
Mar 1, 2024
539
944
96
Sebastian been doing some good threads about QCOM Adreno and others Mobile iGP:


When I am working with mobile GPUs, I don't even expect them to do compute like GCN (1) and definitely not like Turing. I expect to work with Xbox 360 / Terascale 3 / Kepler hybrid. And that's been a working model so far for me


When you think about new mobile GPUs, think about all the slow stuff we got before compute got popular. Nvidia's Kepler (oldest DX12 GPU) was emulating groupshared atomics. And now they are $3 trillion AI company focused on fast compute shaders. Mobile GPUs are still there.


This is why I have concerns about GPU-driven rendering on mobile GPU architectures. Even on the latest Android phones.

Rainbow Six: Siege is using a GPU-driven renderer (Ubisoft had 3 teams doing a GPU-driven rendered game back then). Intel iGPU runs it 2.65x faster.


TimeSpy does volume ray-marching and per pixel OIT. Consoles got proper 3d local volume texture support recently. My benchmark using M1 Max back int the day suggests that even Apple doesn't have 3d local volume textures in their phones. Maybe in M3. Didn't run my SDF test in it.


Basically both of the things that I had researched heavily: GPU-driven rendering and volumetric SDF ray-tracing techniques are just badly suited for mobile GPU architectures right now. It's good that now people run these workloads on Qualcomm. That's very good indeed.
 
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FlameTail

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2021
3,146
1,792
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So in terms of GPU architectures, I guess we can rank them like this:

Tier 1 : Nvidia

Tier 2 : AMD, Intel

Tier 3 : Apple

Tier 4 : Qualcomm, ARM
 

FlameTail

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2021
3,146
1,792
106
Those tweets are great. Enlightening us about the GPU architecture situation.

Sidenote, in hindsight Samsung's decision to partner with AMD to put RDNA in Exynos looks a 200 IQ move.
 
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SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
5,058
410
126
while the GPU/software is too early for prime time, I'm still impressed by how well it runs some games and handles the old DX and so on, if they put the resources behind it they can get much closer to acceptable soon ish,
it's a shame you can't combine it with a Nvidia or AMD GPU to evaluate just the CPU/prism in gaming,
 
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