Question Zen 6 Speculation Thread

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soresu

Platinum Member
Dec 19, 2014
2,955
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I look forward to the day MLID will leak the 2026/2027 version of this slide:

Zen6 APUs
Basically just replace Strix Point with Medusa, Strix Halo with Medusa Halo, and likely some Zen6 equivalent to Phoenix2/Kraken.

Probably RDNA5, XDNA3, yada yada yada.

Interested to see if Mendocino gets replaced tho, that will be a high volume part.

It was originally announced in Sept 2022, so definitely due an upgrade by 2026/27.
 

FlameTail

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2021
3,151
1,800
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Basically just replace Strix Point with Medusa, Strix Halo with Medusa Halo, and likely some Zen6 equivalent to Phoenix2/Kraken.

Probably RDNA5, XDNA3, yada yada yada.

Interested to see if Mendocino gets replaced tho, that will be a high volume part.

It was originally announced in Sept 2022, so definitely due an upgrade by 2026/27.
No RDNA5. It'll be RDNA3.5
 

FlameTail

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2021
3,151
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I was basing it on this rumour:

 

soresu

Platinum Member
Dec 19, 2014
2,955
2,173
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Post COVID manufacturing, trade, supply chain issues and related economic impacts have also affected silicon roadmaps.

Zen4/RDNA3 was said to be somewhat late, but now we can somewhat say the same about Zen5 and certainly RDNA4 being as it still hasn't even had an announcement.

If the same happens with Zen6 and RDNA5 the generation after could well be slooooowww to come out.
 

LightningZ71

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2017
1,659
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There's not much of a point in going beyond RDNA 3.5 on their APUs for another generation or two due to RAM throughput limitations. Anything that's going to push iGPU performance much past the incremental upgrades we've seen in the latest products (excluding Strix Halo, which gets a wider memory bus) won't have much of an impact as RAM throughput will only go up a little (percentage wise) in the next two years or so, at least until DDR6 makes mainstream release.

The only end-around for this would be integrating infinity cache/MALL cache/SLC or whatever it gets called onto the APU. That is technically doable now, and is being done with Strix Halo, but isn't fiscally sound yet. When TSMC gets N3P, N2 and further generations ironed out, and we get N4C based 3D cache dies to stack with, then we might begin to see products take advantage of greater bandwidth available by moving to notably higher iGPU configurations.

That being said, Strix Point with their 8 WGPs and likely with LPDDR5X running north of 7800 speeds should be suitable for high detail 1080p gaming without having to lean too heavily on scaling technologies, and with scaling tech, should be able to run the highest detail settings with good results at 1080p while also offering playable quality with modest detail at 1440p. We won't see extensive ray-tracing in iGPUs for some time, though, the limited ray tracing capabilities that are there now can provide some modest image enhancements already if they are carefully applied.

To make this relevant for the Zen6 thread, I think that AMD may investigate using 3d stacked cache for the Zen6 version of the Strix Point product segment. I could see using the increased circuit density for another pair of WGPs, going from 8 to 10 or maybe even 12. RAM wouldn't keep up though, so I think that a smallish 16MB N4C based 3dCache implementation option on it would bring notable results.
 

Joe NYC

Platinum Member
Jun 26, 2021
2,329
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There's not much of a point in going beyond RDNA 3.5 on their APUs for another generation or two due to RAM throughput limitations. Anything that's going to push iGPU performance much past the incremental upgrades we've seen in the latest products (excluding Strix Halo, which gets a wider memory bus) won't have much of an impact as RAM throughput will only go up a little (percentage wise) in the next two years or so, at least until DDR6 makes mainstream release.

The only end-around for this would be integrating infinity cache/MALL cache/SLC or whatever it gets called onto the APU. That is technically doable now, and is being done with Strix Halo, but isn't fiscally sound yet. When TSMC gets N3P, N2 and further generations ironed out, and we get N4C based 3D cache dies to stack with, then we might begin to see products take advantage of greater bandwidth available by moving to notably higher iGPU configurations.

That being said, Strix Point with their 8 WGPs and likely with LPDDR5X running north of 7800 speeds should be suitable for high detail 1080p gaming without having to lean too heavily on scaling technologies, and with scaling tech, should be able to run the highest detail settings with good results at 1080p while also offering playable quality with modest detail at 1440p. We won't see extensive ray-tracing in iGPUs for some time, though, the limited ray tracing capabilities that are there now can provide some modest image enhancements already if they are carefully applied.

To make this relevant for the Zen6 thread, I think that AMD may investigate using 3d stacked cache for the Zen6 version of the Strix Point product segment. I could see using the increased circuit density for another pair of WGPs, going from 8 to 10 or maybe even 12. RAM wouldn't keep up though, so I think that a smallish 16MB N4C based 3dCache implementation option on it would bring notable results.

Remains to be seen if Zen 6 successor of Strix Point is monolithic or chiplet based. Probably chiplet based, and if so, there will likely be MALL type of SLC, which had to be cut from Strix Point, because it was getting too big.

If it is chiplet based, we will see if it resembles more Lunar Lake or Strix Halo, or if it is entirely different configuration of chiplets...
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,004
6,446
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It wouldn't surprise me to find out that RDNA3.5 exists solely because of Sony and PS5 Pro.

RDNA 3.5 exists due to issues within RDNA3 that severely gimped the architecture.

I think most of the Sony customization on the GPU was for RT technology as opposed to any significant changes of the base RDNA architecture. Though they did make some changes to the CPU cores that would be significant if it were a PC part so it's certainly possible they looked for similar ways to trim down the GPU cores, but there's not much difference between a console GPU and PC GPU in terms of what they need to do, unlike the CPU which can have more cut given that it's much less general purpose on a console.
 

LightningZ71

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2017
1,659
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Zen6 is rumored to be chiplet based, or at least use other forms of MCM tech. I personally believe that they won't abandon stacking, even if they do chiplets on an interposer. How it gets stacked is yet to be determined.
 

Anhiel

Member
May 12, 2022
69
28
61
I doubt this will be for the desktop either.
The iGPU RDNA version will mostly depend on the power consumption.
People may not have realized it yet. In the past iGPU consumption used to be around 10W but now we are talking about around 55W (TDP) for Strix Hallo. That's ~1/3 of the upcoming socket (150W) for it.
iGPU/NPU consumption fraction will only increase from now on so there's got to be an acceptable limit (50% ?), meaning things will likely stagnate in this area soon. This is likely going to be a reason for it becoming a standalone chiplet for good.

That said if AMD wants to remain competitive on the video card side RNDA6 is needed sooner. How much of it is gonna go into an APU is everybody's guess.
 
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adroc_thurston

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2023
3,319
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In the past iGPU consumption used to be around 10W
no?
but now we are talking about around 55W (TDP) for Strix Hallo
Higher or lower, depending on the SKU and PPT target.
That's ~1/3 of the upcoming socket (150W) for it.
It's a 120W max platform.
That said if AMD wants to remain competitive on the video card side RNDA6 is needed sooner.
They do not?
each one is a tock.
 
Reactions: Tlh97 and Joe NYC

naad

Member
May 31, 2022
64
176
76
Hopefully Medusa gets some much needed change to mobile fabric/interconnect IP


I dunno if they're planning on a aerith-style <15W PPT part, but they should
 
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