Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

DisEnchantment · Mar 23, 2022

With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits

History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. - History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

github.com

Or Phoronix

More AMD "GFX940" Enablement Work Landing In LLVM - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.

Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now. First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time! Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3...

forums.anandtech.com

gaav87 · Jul 1, 2024

Kepler_L2 said:
Navi4C was 9 SE, the remaining lineup only goes up to 4 SE.

Also something undefined decreased from 16-32 (5bit) to 0-8 (3bit)

xpea · Jul 1, 2024

Ghostsonplanets said:
Entry-Level Gaming Laptop customers are the type that care more about perf/$ than loyalty to X or Y sticker. Would provide a good opening for AMD return into Mobile dGP designs.

The reason why every single laptop has a variant with a Nvidia dGPU (even a nuseless one like 4050 on a Strix SKU) is the Chinese market where laptops simply don't sell without a Nvidia dGPU. Green team mindshare is too strong and AMD has a terrible brand image. In fact, I had to import my ASUS Zenbook 14X OLED from Taiwan because the dGPU less version was not available in China mainland...

reaperrr3 · Jul 5, 2024

gaav87 said:
Hey i came across this mesa code from june for gfx12.

"NUM_SHADER_ENGINES (4 bits)"
gfx11 has 2 bits up to 4 shader engines (2^2). From 0 to 3 (RDNA3 has 3 per GCD)
gfx12 has 4 bits up to 16 shader engines (2^4).

Does this mean RDNA4 has between 8-15 shader engines ?

Actually, RDNA3 has up to 6 (in N31)...

jpiniero · Jul 17, 2024

https://twitter.com/x/status/1813546361872347328

Minor rumor about a possible delay for the PS5 Pro. I don't think a delay really makes any sense so I am wondering if they might be considering cancelling it. Would the talk of TSMC price hikes be enough to push Sony over the edge?

soresu · Jul 17, 2024

jpiniero said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1813546361872347328

Minor rumor about a possible delay for the PS5 Pro. I don't think a delay really makes any sense so I am wondering if they might be considering cancelling it. Would the talk of TSMC price hikes be enough to push Sony over the edge?

More likely MS capitulation on a mid cycle refresh would be the reason for cancelling.

PS5 is already doing very well against XSX. so taking away the MS mid cycle competition would leave Sony holding the bag for something with uncertain gain, especially if they can also field their own FSR/DLSS variant in software which they are rumored to be doing.

I think they would be more likely to release a better slim variant.

IMHO the slim variants for PS3 and PS4 are pretty pathetic compared to PS2 -> PStwo.

If Strix Halo is pretty close in spec GPU wise to PS5 then it seems insane to pass up the opportunity to reuse that work for a new and improved slim variant.

jpiniero · Jul 17, 2024

soresu said:
If Strix Halo is pretty close in spec GPU wise to PS5 then it seems insane to pass up the opportunity to reuse that work for a new and improved slim variant.

Too expensive. There was talk about it being $600, and presumably not at a loss like the Slim still does.

soresu · Jul 17, 2024

jpiniero said:
Too expensive. There was talk about it being $600, and presumably not at a loss like the Slim still does.

600 because the Pro SoC would have been considerably more transistors.

Ghostsonplanets · Jul 17, 2024

jpiniero said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1813546361872347328

Minor rumor about a possible delay for the PS5 Pro. I don't think a delay really makes any sense so I am wondering if they might be considering cancelling it. Would the talk of TSMC price hikes be enough to push Sony over the edge?

They won't cancel at this stage. Developers are already at works for Pro enhanced games and devkits have been sent since last year.

What is probably happening is that Sony sees no reason to release it this year given the weak software output planned for 2024 between Sony first-party and third-parties and the fact Microsoft provides zero competition, allowing Sony to plan things with more calm.

They're probably thinking of releasing it alongside GTA 6 or Monster Hunter Wilds, which are very big software releases coming 2025 and would make a very appealing launch software for the premium console.

Ghostsonplanets · Jul 17, 2024

soresu said:
If Strix Halo is pretty close in spec GPU wise to PS5 then it seems insane to pass up the opportunity to reuse that work for a new and improved slim variant.

Why would they do this? Not only this is akin to basically launching a third different PS5 hardware, making the life of developers even more difficult, but Strix Halo is extremely expensive for a console due to being an advanced packaging SoC fabbed on bleeding edge node.

That's basically years of R&D for an expensive Slim variant that would yield very little reward.

PS5 Oberon Plus SoC is 260mm² on N6 currently. Sony has the chance of porting the design to the cost-effective TSMC N4C in the future for a possible PS5 Slim/Super Slim and get the SoC at <200mm² while reducing SoC power usage by half. That would allow some extreme board, power supply and console design simplification, while reducing the costs dramatically.

It's probably something Sony has in mind for the future. Although they can simply keep using the cheap N6 node and current CUH-2000 design unchanged and focus R&D on PS5 Pro and PS6.

soresu · Jul 17, 2024

Ghostsonplanets said:
PS5 Oberon Plus SoC is 260mm² on N6 currently. Sony has the chance of porting the design to the cost-effective TSMC N4C in the future for a possible PS5 Slim/Super Slim and get the SoC at <200mm² while reducing SoC power usage by half. That would allow some extreme board, power supply and console design simplification, while reducing the costs dramatically.

Whatever the R&D baseline of the SoC this is basically what I was talking about.

WIthout a mid cycle beef cake competitor from Redmond they might as well just go with cost saving on the base model.

Ghostsonplanets · Jul 17, 2024

soresu said:
WIthout a mid cycle beef cake competitor from Redmond they might as well just go with cost saving on the base model.

It's a possibility they have. MS not having a Pro console has no bearing on the PS Pro strategy though (And Sony is gearing up for Xbox Next in 2026 too).

It also depends on how Sony sees post-PS5 console gaming. In an era where games take 4-5 years minimum to be developed and cost 100+M at minimum, it makes more sense to extend PS5 lifecyle and turn them into semi-PCs rather than having hard generations cut-offs.

adroc_thurston · Jul 17, 2024

Ghostsonplanets said:
In an era where games take 4-5 years minimum to be developed and cost 100+M at minimum

They can just dial back the saddad slop output and focus on AA stuff like they did 25 years ago with PS2.
Works for Nintendo!

Ghostsonplanets said:
and turn them into semi-PCs rather than having hard generations cut-offs.

There already is none, cross-gen somehow still lingers on for some titles. Almost 4 years into the PS5 lifecycle.

marees · Jul 18, 2024

Acer’s EEC filling lists Radeon RX 7900, RX 7800 and RX 7700 non-XT models

Acer's EEC filling lists Radeon RX 7900, RX 7800 and RX 7700 non-XT models - VideoCardz.com

Acer Radeon RX 7900/7800/7700 Acer preparing for the potential launch of non-XT variants. Acer has submitted a long list of its graphics cards to the EEC (Eurasian Economic Commission) to allow the company to sell these models within the region governed by this regulatory body. The list shows...

videocardz.com

7900 == Navi 48 16gb full ?
7800 == Navi 48 16gb cut down?

7700 == Navi 44 8gb full ?

Kepler_L2 · Jul 18, 2024

marees said:
Acer’s EEC filling lists Radeon RX 7900, RX 7800 and RX 7700 non-XT models

Acer's EEC filling lists Radeon RX 7900, RX 7800 and RX 7700 non-XT models - VideoCardz.com

Acer Radeon RX 7900/7800/7700 Acer preparing for the potential launch of non-XT variants. Acer has submitted a long list of its graphics cards to the EEC (Eurasian Economic Commission) to allow the company to sell these models within the region governed by this regulatory body. The list shows...

videocardz.com

7900 == Navi 48 16gb full ?
7800 == Navi 48 16gb cut down?

7700 == Navi 44 8gb full ?

?????

Navi4 is a new generation.

marees · Jul 18, 2024

Kepler_L2 said:
?????

Charge x900 price for a x800/x700 card ?

Have we got confirmation that AMD will name these cards as 8xxx ?

Tuna-Fish · Jul 18, 2024

marees said:
Charge x900 price for a x800/x700 card ?

Have we got confirmation that AMD will name these cards as 8xxx ?

No, we just know that they would never do that, because it would be dumb.

These are just new cuts of Navi 31 and 32. It's a common for such things to appear near the end of the generation, to get rid of all the dies that are maybe useful but don't make the cut for better bins.

Ghostsonplanets · Jul 18, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
They can just dial back the saddad slop output and focus on AA stuff like they did 25 years ago with PS2.
Works for Nintendo!

They can't. They built their brand on being cutting edge. The window of focusing on smaller scale stuff and give up on the ever increasing arms race was on the PS2 - > PS3 transition. Nintendo choose to do it because they saw they wouldn't exist if they kept up scaling. Sony didn't.

They'll need to look into making AAA sustainable and more profitable. Stuff like Spider-Man 2 costing 300M doesn't cut anymore.

adroc_thurston said:
There already is none, cross-gen somehow still lingers on for some titles. Almost 4 years into the PS5 lifecycle.

They'll need to expand it. Something like PS5 lasting as long as the PS6 generation for example.

Future consoles will be more expensive. So something will need to be worked on to keep consoles accessible.

marees said:
Charge x900 price for a x800/x700 card ?

Have we got confirmation that AMD will name these cards as 8xxx ?

Not confirmation but it's just logical, no?

marees · Jul 18, 2024

Ghostsonplanets said:
Not confirmation but it's just logical, no?

Not creating a new series for RDNA 4 makes sense to me if they don't have to explicitly bring attention to the fact that there is no top card this time

Anyways I don't expect much to happen on RDNA 4 front as long as RDNA 2 stocks are still on shelves. Maybe we'll start getting leaks once the RDNA 2 stocks are sold out

Tuna-Fish · Jul 18, 2024

marees said:
Not creating a new series for RDNA 4 makes sense to me if they don't have to explicitly bring attention to the fact that there is no top card this time

They need to create a new series regardless of what chips are on it just because the 7000-series has soon been on the shelves for two years.

The idea that they would launch their new generation as non-xt variants of their old generation names is just terminally stupid. Their AIB manufacturers would revolt, and refuse to build cards for them. It would be very hard to convince anyone that a "7900" was a new and improved thing and not just the same old stuff that's two years old.

I do not understand why it keeps getting proposed, do people for some reason not understand the slightest thing about marketing? Both manufacturers have in the past done entire "new" generations where in fact every card is a rebrand, just to increase the number on the boards when there wasn't a fresh new product. They would never not increase generation number when they actually do have one.

GodisanAtheist · Jul 18, 2024

Tuna-Fish said:
They need to create a new series regardless of what chips are on it just because the 7000-series has soon been on the shelves for two years.

The idea that they would launch their new generation as non-xt variants of their old generation names is just terminally stupid. Their AIB manufacturers would revolt, and refuse to build cards for them. It would be very hard to convince anyone that a "7900" was a new and improved thing and not just the same old stuff that's two years old.

I do not understand why it keeps getting proposed, do people for some reason not understand the slightest thing about marketing? Both manufacturers have in the past done entire "new" generations where in fact every card is a rebrand, just to increase the number on the boards when there wasn't a fresh new product. They would never not increase generation number when they actually do have one.

- All those things and if RDNA4 has better RT then you're going to have a lot of very confused customers and tons of bad press.

Hans Gruber · Jul 18, 2024

GodisanAtheist said:
- All those things and if RDNA4 has better RT then you're going to have a lot of very confused customers and tons of bad press.

Which is why both AMD and Intel need to release their cards ASAP. When Blackwell is released by Nvidia. The cards from Intel and AMD become relevant only in price/performance. With RDNA4, AMD is not going to even hit 7900xtx performance. If you do not have the goods to compete, you need to put your goods out on the market before Nvidia releases Blackwell.

It looks like AMD will be targeting the 5060/5060ti market. I think AMD needs something that competes with a 5070/5070ti with RDNA4. I do not understand AMD's GPU strategy. They act like they are 1st or in the same category as Nvidia but fall significantly behind in performance. AMD pricing does not reflect their position. The idea of maintaining profit margins is not going to work well because Intel will have a legitimate alternative in Battlemage.

It is truly confusing times in the GPU market.

adroc_thurston · Jul 19, 2024

Ghostsonplanets said:
They can't. They built their brand on being cutting edge.

Yeah they can lmao.
The latest Ratchet game was a fraction of the cost of the usual snoy cape vomit™ by Insomniac.

Ghostsonplanets said:
The window of focusing on smaller scale stuff and give up on the ever increasing arms race was on the PS2 - > PS3 transition

No, they just followed MS' suit.

jpiniero · Jul 19, 2024

Hans Gruber said:
It looks like AMD will be targeting the 5060/5060ti market. I think AMD needs something that competes with a 5070/5070ti with RDNA4.

While I think the leakers are way too optimistic about N48's performance... I think N48 should be competitive with the 5070 in raster.

Hans Gruber said:
I do not understand AMD's GPU strategy. They act like they are 1st or in the same category as Nvidia but fall significantly behind in performance. AMD pricing does not reflect their position. The idea of maintaining profit margins is not going to work well because Intel will have a legitimate alternative in Battlemage.

Intel is irrelevant.

Ghostsonplanets · Jul 19, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
Yeah they can lmao.
The latest Ratchet game was a fraction of the cost of the usual snoy cape vomit™ by Insomniac.

It still cost 83M dollars

adroc_thurston said:
No, they just followed MS' suit.

That's the problem. They're fighting against MS and PC which are bleeding edge competition. Hard to downscale.

Granted, I believe PS6 will be a smaller jump gen on gen than usual though.

adroc_thurston · Jul 19, 2024

Ghostsonplanets said:
It still cost 83M dollars

Cuz they made it from scratch.

Ghostsonplanets said:
They're fighting against MS and PC which are bleeding edge competition. Hard to downscale.

No, they're just a bit too high on their own supply.
MS is no competition, they don't have the management capacity to leverage their IP portfolio.

Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

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Acer’s EEC filling lists Radeon RX 7900, RX 7800 and RX 7700 non-XT models

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