Alec Baldwin shoots and kills a woman, injures a man.

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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,275
13,580
146
With guns, there are no accidents. Only negligence.
... no, accidents do in fact happen. It's not as common in the modern age, but there are plenty of sufficiently random events that can occur with firearms, even while using blanks, that can result in injury or death, that aren't necessarily someone's fault. Brandon Lee's is a good example. No reasonable person is going to replace or disassemble a firearm after every blank fired.
 
Reactions: ch33zw1z
Jul 27, 2020
19,823
13,588
146
The real solution is to switch to pew pew guns.

Yes, they just make a pew pew sound and then add a projectile in post. They can call Raja Koduri. He'll give them a very reasonable special effects plan.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,024
5,903
126
That's why the entire production team needs to be charged. Not just Alec. How come only Alec's name gets dragged into the mud whereas the other culpable members of the production team are roaming scot free? What about the idiot AD who shouted COLD gun? What about the A-holes who were using real guns and real ammo for shooting practice in off-duty hours around the ranch? Why haven't they been identified? The investigation has been stupid.
Because he has made fun of Trump multiple times on SNL and his supporters are the biggest snowflakes on the planet.

Duh.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,275
13,580
146
Should every actor who's pointed a gun at someone go to jail? That's illegal, I'd go to jail if I pointed a gun at you and you weren't a threat.
One could be firing at a range and have a squib load result in a catastrophic disassembly, the shrapnel from which could injure someone, so may as well make that illegal too.
 
Nov 17, 2019
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Should every actor who's pointed a gun at someone go to jail? That's illegal, I'd go to jail if I pointed a gun at you and you weren't a threat.
If any one was hurt, yes.
One could be firing at a range and have a squib load result in a catastrophic disassembly, the shrapnel from which could injure someone, so may as well make that illegal too.
That would be negligence on someone, maybe the range, maybe the gun maker
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
23,067
21,192
136
Maybe Taj will volunteer to dress up like the victim with a wig and dress and all, for a re-enactment of the events, of course with non-live gun rounds, or are they? who really knows anymore?
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136
This has all been hashed out a bunch of times in this thread. A movie set is not your average workplace. The armorer checks and clears the gun before calling cold gun. If the actor then checks the gun in any way, the armorer is supposed to stop production, and clear the gun again. Following common gun safety like check it yourself is likely actually against safety protocols on set. Just stick to producer and stop adding to the nonsense.

It's not. Baldwins protectors want it to be, want to continue to argue for stupid and error prone safety procedures, and the result will be more avoidable deaths like this.
Playing pretend doesn't give you special rights to be foolish, negligent and endanger others needlessly.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136
The armorer’s entire job is basically to ensure that the firearms on the set are safe.

I definitely agree that Baldwin as a producer should be liable in a civil sense but I’m sorry, that woman’s conduct was egregious.

She's liable too, and was found guilty. She's not the only one at fault tho. Widespread failure and negligence across this shit show of a production. Everyone involved needs to be held accountable for the dead woman.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,628
50,842
136
She's liable too, and was found guilty. She's not the only one at fault tho. Widespread failure and negligence across this shit show of a production. Everyone involved needs to be held accountable for the dead woman.
Baldwin should be held civilly accountable, yes, but this is very clearly a criminal case that should never have been brought and one I expect him to win easily barring some unforeseen development. It's not a close thing.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136
Question from someone who doesn't know a lot about guns.

Why can they make firearms with barrels a slightly smaller caliber for movies so live rounds don't fit?

The gun they used wasn't a "prop" in the sense it was a replica.

They used an actual, commercially available, working firearm and called it a day.

There was no reason whatsoever to have live ammo on set like that. No one with any good judgment should have wanted to have it around anywhere.

Example: You can easily get "snap caps" that can be made to look like bullets (good enough for the camera) but be just solid, inert metal. These are routinely used for training with working firearms.

You could even have easily manufactured real looking ammo [in the prop department] using actual bullets, and actual brass cases, but no primer and no powder so that they are also inert but also easily distinguishable, but difference hidden from the camera.

Or just epoxy bullets (meaning just the lead projectile) into the revolver cylinder and it's inert...

They didn't bother creating any non-functional replicas. It's like going to cosplay at comic con, but cheating and using an actual firearm and real ammunition. The height of stupidity.

Of course you need competent executives hiring competent staff who create competent procedures, then you train the people handling the firearms on the processes, and have all those above then ensuring procedures are followed. Baldwin failed in two ends here.
 
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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136
Baldwin should be held civilly accountable, yes, but this is very clearly a criminal case that should never have been brought and one I expect him to win easily barring some unforeseen development. It's not a close thing.
Curious no, that he quickly got out in front in an interview and lied about the gun firing on it's own (bullshit, disproven) and his finger not being on the trigger (it's on film)?

If it's only the armor's job, why not tell the truth instead of easily falsifiable lies on national television?

Consciousness of guilt was talking there.

I don't particularly care if he's punished criminally or civilly, just that he can get away using wealth and fame to avoid responsibility for killing someone.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,628
50,842
136
Curious no, that he quickly got out in front in an interview and lied about the gun firing on it's own (bullshit, disproven) and his finger not being on the trigger (it's on film)?

If it's only the armor's job, why not tell the truth instead of easily falsifiable lies on national television?
This hasn't been disproven, actually, and is going to be a very large problem for the prosecution. In examining the gun the FBI destroyed it so there's no way for any adversarial entity to examine it and/or the evidence.

Baldwin did make one significant mistake though, he removed one of the main possible defenses saying he knew it would be reckless to point it at someone and pull the trigger so he can't just say 'I assumed anything the armorer gave me was safe'. Mistake on his part but the case is so weak he's probably still fine.
Consciousness of guilt was talking there.

I don't particularly care if he's punished criminally or civilly, just that he can get away using wealth and fame to avoid responsibility for killing someone.
Baldwin didn't get away with avoiding civil responsibility for her death.

He will very likely avoid criminal responsibility for it but that's no different than you or me. Honestly, I suspect had he not been famous this case would never have been brought.
 
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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,113
14,481
146
It's not. Baldwins protectors want it to be, want to continue to argue for stupid and error prone safety procedures, and the result will be more avoidable deaths like this.
Playing pretend doesn't give you special rights to be foolish, negligent and endanger others needlessly.
lol you think actors messing with weapons that trained armorers have safed will somehow prevent more deaths than they’ll cause.

No, the only reason to blame Baldwin is for political reasons or asinine ammosexual views on “no true gun owner would have an accident”.
 

HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
2,759
1,455
136
What a rollercoaster. Yesterday when it was ruled that Alec's 'blanks can kill' statement could come in, it looked like the defense was on the ropes. And today, a complete reversal in momentum. Not only was the case dismissed, but even the Hannah Gutierrez-Reed conviction is imperiled. Really sloppy work by police, investigators, and the prosecution. Conversely, great work by Spiro and crew.
 
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