Intel processors crashing Unreal engine games (and others)

lucas122478 · Aug 3, 2024

Has anyone considered this was all intentional and just backfired? Akin, to when Apple intentionally degraded batteries in iPhones. What if the degradation of the Intel CPUs was always meant to happen and they just screwed up and it happened much sooner than they intended.

I used to build new PCs every 2 years, then went up to 4 years. Now it's every 8 years as there's just been no real need to upgrade. I've never really looked at trends on this but I'd say the average joe also is sitting on their PCs for around this length of time before upgrading. It's no suprise and no secret that alot of products manufactured by manufacturers are intentionally built to fail after awhile.

Is there any way this could be looked into deeper to find out if it was actually intentional? Besides of course a whistleblower from intel coming forward. Oxidation was never a problem before with CPUs. Now it is?

DAPUNISHER · Aug 3, 2024

Nothingness said:
There is competition on the Arm front in some segments. But at least one is missing: the gaming market. Sure it might change, but we're far from being there. And I don't think having AMD as the sole player would do any good to us.

Objects in your rearview mirror are closer than they appear. (Take notes Pat.)

DAPUNISHER · Aug 3, 2024

lucas122478 said:
Has anyone considered this was all intentional and just backfired? Akin, to when Apple intentionally degraded batteries in iPhones. What if the degradation of the Intel CPUs was always meant to happen and they just screwed up and it happened much sooner than they intended.

I used to build new PCs every 2 years, then went up to 4 years. Now it's every 8 years as there's just been no real need to upgrade. I've never really looked at trends on this but I'd say the average joe also is sitting on their PCs for around this length of time before upgrading. It's no suprise and no secret that alot of products manufactured by manufacturers are intentionally built to fail after awhile.

Is there any way this could be looked into deeper to find out if it was actually intentional? Besides of course a whistleblower from intel coming forward. Oxidation was never a problem before with CPUs. Now it is?

That's way too X Files for me. Incompetence and attempts to cover it up are how we got here. The Scooby gang eventually unmasks the culprit every time. That was the real mistake, thinking they could sweep the hot coal under the rug and smother it out. Now it's a 3 alarm fire.

igor_kavinski · Aug 3, 2024

Thanks, Steve, for pointing me to the Intel Github for microcode updates

Releases · intel/Intel-Linux-Processor-Microcode-Data-Files

Contribute to intel/Intel-Linux-Processor-Microcode-Data-Files development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

Latest microcode update details for 13/14th gen: https://cdrdv2.intel.com/v1/dl/getContent/740518

Same for Core Ultra (Meteor Lake): https://cdrdv2.intel.com/v1/dl/getContent/792254

The RPL document is on the 15th revision while MTL one is at just the 7th revision.

RPL has 58 errata out of which 8 have been fixed.

MTL has 42 errata out of which 13 have been fixed.

To my untrained eye, it looks like RPL is hella lot buggy.

Also, MTL027 and RPL054 look exactly the same:

So this means HT functionality was just copypasted into MTL without any additional validation (hey, it's already validated in 13th gen. No need to do it again. Let's ship it already!)

DAPUNISHER · Aug 3, 2024

We will give you another CPU with latent defects, but no refunds

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1ej3wsx/intel_declines_my_rma_for_13900ks_and_12900k_and

DrMrLordX · Aug 3, 2024

DAPUNISHER said:
That's way too X Files for me. Incompetence and attempts to cover it up are how we got here. The Scooby gang eventually unmasks the culprit every time. That was the real mistake, thinking they could sweep the hot coal under the rug and smother it out. Now it's a 3 alarm fire.

It certainly looks like things got sloppy at their 10nm fabs. The GN video recap indicates that Intel was essentially running "hot lots" of wafers, displacing scheduled manufacturing plans and leaving lots of other wafers to wait (for who knows how long) which may have been a source of contamination/oxidation of vias.

Unless Intel can demonstrate that they'll never ever do that again (pinky promise), I don't see how fab customers are going to have much confidence in them. Similar hyjinx could threaten future products at any of their fabs.

igor_kavinski · Aug 3, 2024

DrMrLordX said:
Unless Intel can demonstrate that they'll never ever do that again (pinky promise), I don't see how fab customers are going to have much confidence in them. Similar hyjinx could threaten future products at any of their fabs.

Yeah, their main advantage they had over AMD (way back in the 14nm era), evaporated with their 10nm troubles. And these current issues make it seem like the fabs should be TAKEN AWAY from Intel coz they are no longer fit to care for them (There IS a Fab Protective Services Dept of the US Govt, right?????).

DrMrLordX · Aug 3, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
And these current issues make it seem like the fabs should be TAKEN AWAY from Intel coz they are no longer fit to care for them (There IS a Fab Protective Services Dept of the US Govt, right?????).

Taken away by whom? Tower semiconductor?

burninatortech4 · Aug 3, 2024

DAPUNISHER said:
We will give you another CPU with latent defects, but no refunds
https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1ej3wsx/intel_declines_my_rma_for_13900ks_and_12900k_and

Insulting.

Steltek · Aug 3, 2024

burninatortech4 said:
Insulting.

Yeah, but not surprising. I predict we'll soon be seeing it happening everywhere to direct sale end users. The simple fact of the matter is that Intel doesn't care about whether they loose individual end user customers. Nor does the bad press that comes along with it matter to them.

In the end, the money Intel makes selling processors directly to end users and enthusiasts are a minor drop in the bucket. All they care about are the OEMs which is where they make the vast majority of their money off CPU sales.

The issue hasn't been specifically addressed by any of the major OEMs yet, to the best of my knowledge. And, we won't hear from them provided that those CPUs last a day beyond the standard year warranty they typically provide. As anyone who has dealt with Dell, HP, or Lenovo et all has experienced, once that warranty period ends all they'll do is try to sell you an overpriced repair or a new machine.

SolidQ · Aug 4, 2024

Puget Systems' Perspective on Intel CPU Instability Issues

You may have heard about instability issues with Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen desktop processors. The issue has been gaining more attention as time goes on. I am posting to share what we've experienced here at Puget Systems, and what we're doing about it.

www.pugetsystems.com

They're really serious about it?
Based on the failure rate data we currently have, it is interesting to see that 14th Gen is still nowhere near the failure rates of the Intel Core 11th Gen processors back in 2021 and also substantially lower than AMD Ryzen 5000 (both in terms of shop and field failures) or Ryzen 7000 (in terms of shop failures, if not field)

In2Photos · Aug 4, 2024

JayzTwoCents replaced his Intel workstation with AMD.

KompuKare · Aug 4, 2024

Good Puget to extend their warranty and they are getting great publicity for this.

However, for consumers:
"...in terms of shop failures, if not field..."
shop failures or DOA are seldom a big deal unless buying from the most untrustworthy retailer whereas a part failing afterwards is a far larger problem.

Still, nice wording as it should at least keep the company run by "i hate amd" onboard:

Incidentally, since that was from 2006, I rather suspect that Pat must have had plenty of insider knowledge of Intel's OEM bribery at the time - and is probably fuming that Intel cannot do the same this time.

AdamK47 · Aug 4, 2024

In2Photos said:
JayzTwoCents replaced his Intel workstation with AMD.

His home PC is still Intel.

In2Photos · Aug 4, 2024

AdamK47 said:
His home PC is still Intel.

And it turns out he only built it because he wanted to retire the EVGA stuff. Guess I should have watched the whole video first.

biostud · Aug 4, 2024

In2Photos said:
JayzTwoCents replaced his Intel workstation with AMD.

Also he will probably upgrade for a 9950X3D when released.

AdamK47 · Aug 4, 2024

In2Photos said:
And it turns out he only built it because he wanted to retire the EVGA stuff. Guess I should have watched the whole video first.

He wanted to get on the Intel --> AMD social media train. The algorithm demands it.

lakedude · Aug 4, 2024

Jan Olšan · Aug 4, 2024

KompuKare said:
Still, nice wording as it should at least keep the company run by "i hate amd" onboard:

That was likely tongue-in-cheek. Similarly, he got bashed for the rear view mirror talk, but heck, he's a coach trying to hype and motivate his team for the match, what do you expect him to say. Demonisation of oposing camp CEOs is silly. Except Huang that is, Nvidia is scummy company

maddie · Aug 4, 2024

Jan Olšan said:
That was likely tongue-in-cheek. Similarly, he got bashed for the rear view mirror talk, but heck, he's a coach trying to hype and motivate his team for the match, what do you expect him to say. Demonisation of oposing camp CEOs is silly. Except Huang that is, Nvidia is scummy company

Yep, a perfectly modern world view. Narrative trumps reality in this world, or so some say.

coercitiv · Aug 4, 2024

Jan Olšan said:
Similarly, he got bashed for the rear view mirror talk, but heck, he's a coach trying to hype and motivate his team for the match, what do you expect him to say.

Poor... Volta?

Jan Olšan · Aug 4, 2024

coercitiv said:
Poor... Volta?

Yeah exactly the same case. I was amazed people still remembered that >1 year later and considered that an *issue*.

reggie_fils_aime · Aug 4, 2024

AdamK47 said:
He wanted to get on the Intel --> AMD social media train. The algorithm demands it.

He's also had a Raptor Lake build or two die on him already, so it's not like he's without merit for doing so.

coercitiv · Aug 6, 2024

Another day, another clarification: the list of CPUs covered by the extended warranty. The locked i5 SKUs are notably missing.

SteinFG · Aug 6, 2024

coercitiv said:
The locked i5 SKUs are notably missing.

Yeah because they're not raptor lake. They're all still alder lake below i5K

Intel processors crashing Unreal engine games (and others)

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