- Mar 3, 2017
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You are the only person here comparing laptop processors to desktop processors. The performance uplift and power efficiency gains can be both and not one or the other. The only way you would know what you are getting is if they ran a Zen 5 9700x with N4P vs a Zen 4 7700x with N4P. Same clock speeds and the same TDP. Then you would see the power and performance uplift. I am certain AMD has a lab somewhere they evaluates silicon performance. It would be even more helpful to run a 9700x vs 7700x with both on N5 silicon. That would clearly show the differences in architecture performance.Wrong. First, it provides either 22% OR 11%. Not at the same time. If you ever saw a single node comparison chart, you'd know that.
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Wrong again, only desktop parts used N5. Phoenix and Hawk Point both use N4.
We don't have desktop parts at the moment with the same power limit running at the same clocks (we will with the release of 9950X, but even still, you have to account for the IOD power, making obtaining the data for the comparison very difficult). Hence, the comparison between 8940HS in Razer Blade 14 and HX 370 in the Zenbook -- neither hits a power limit under 1T workload, and both parts are monolithic with no savings coming from the node.
Your original claim was that all of power savings were explained by the node changes and not by architecture.
It is disproven by the graphs from the Computerbase's Strix Point review.
Counter point: I was also wrong about RDNA3 performance but right about Navi4c's cancellation.Sorry, but I find it extremely hard to believe you have a source with that level of information, who simultaneously didn't have enough information to steer you away from your 40% IPC insanity.
Did AMD not address every complaint people had with Zen 4's launch? The MSRP is cheaper, they run cooler, and they're faster.
Counter point: I was also wrong about RDNA3 performance but right about Navi4c's cancellation.
This is important. If Intel tanks hard(er), will the supply chain (laptop and server makers) be happy to rely solely on AMD? Or will they push strongly to get multiple competitive ARM providers (Qualcomm, Nvidia, Mediatek), now that the switching cost is so low and that entry into that market is easy?Council was talking about 1T. The Z1 Extreme is a 8C/16T part and your comparing MT to a 4P+4E/8T M2. Of course Z1 is going to score higher in MT, not to mention the disadvantage of using R23 for ARM based products.
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Anyway better in the meantime AMD, starts work on custom ARM silicon. Get a seperate team and kill Qualcomm push before Nvidia makes a move.
They won't, mobile-wise LNL-onwards is neat.If Intel tanks hard(er)
They're ok, only MS has that weird obsession with WoA.be happy to rely solely on AMD
If they saw the Kepler_L2 Zen 6 roadmap it'd all make sense.They're ok, only MS has that weird obsession with WoA.
Custom ARM CPU cores?Anyway better in the meantime AMD, starts work on custom ARM silicon. Get a seperate team and kill Qualcomm push before Nvidia makes a move.
I see what you mean now.That change nothing, from the 20W Z1EX MT score we can deduct that it use 2W per core for 1020 pts per core excluding SMT.
To score the same as the M2 1585 pts ST score a Z1 core would use about 5W, wich according to the power measurements is the power used by a single M2 core to score those 1585 pts.
So despite the lower frequency a M2 performance core is not more efficient than a Zen 4 core at same ST score, and it s undoubtly quite less efficient than a Zen 5 core in the same conditions.
Link?If they saw the Kepler_L2 Zen 6 roadmap it'd all make sense.
Not really, AMD is rich now.Custom ARM CPU cores?
That will need some significant R&D.
Kepler_L2 said Zen 6 is planned for 2027.Link?
Intel Product survives the current situation unscathed? All of the downsizing falls on the legacy node foundries?They won't, mobile-wise LNL-onwards is neat.
They're ok, only MS has that weird obsession with WoA.
Sure… but… I mean we generally expect a grounds-up new architecture to be at least a little faster too, at least confidently outside the margin of error. The things you’re describing sound like what I’d associate with a Zen4+ or some minor refresh. Plus you factor in the ancient Mike Clark hype (and Intel’s flawed execution) and I think it’s clear to see why folks are a little disappointed.View attachment 104719
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Did AMD not address every complaint people had with Zen 4's launch? The MSRP is cheaper, they're more efficient, and they're faster. Stock vs stock, on average the 9700X is 5% faster using 35% less power than the 7700X in applications. As a cherry pick, der8auer's video has the 9700X using 44% less power than the 7700X in HWBot X265.
The only people that find this release disappointing are likely gamers, who should be waiting for the X3D chips anyway (or buying a discounted 7800X3D). Even then, from that video, the 9700X is still faster and more efficient:
SFF community will love these chips, the 9950X should be a hit, and I eagerly await the 9800X3D (especially if the rumor it's completely unlocked is true).
- Assassin's Creed: 2.19% faster using 9.67% less power.
- Cyberpunk: 1.25% faster using 19.83% less power.
- Counter Strike: 2.43% faster using 4% less power.
- Valorant: 6.02% faster using 5.2% less power.
They have a roadmap and they're gonna stick to it.Intel Product survives the current situation unscathed
Intel is bloated, layoffs may not impact their operations that much if at all.All of the downsizing falls on the legacy node foundries?
DoubtThey won't, mobile-wise LNL-onwards is neat.
It seems MS grand strategy with WoA is to artificially inject competition into the PC hardware space by making WoA viable. MS want to compete with Apple Silicon Macs. At the end of the day, I dont think they care if it's x86 or ARM. If Intel/AMD can deliver the silicon they want, so be it. Otherwise, they use ARM.They're ok, only MS has that weird obsession with WoA.
LNL is good, and nothing about PTLs seems sus.Doubt
They don't have any besides vague "maybe Wintel alternative magically emerges from the ether".WoA is to artificially inject competition into the PC hardware space by making WoA viable
Someone at AMD even tried to warn us.9700X doesn't beat 7800X3D? Insert surprised Pikachu face!
Umm didn’t Intels roadmap change. Like royal is now split. Nothing is set in stone.They have a roadmap and they're gonna stick to it.
Everyone's do.Umm didn’t Intels roadmap change.
That's super duper far away.Like royal is now split