Question This Is The Way Coolers Should Be Tested

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,881
1,550
126
Here is the Anandtech review on today's web-page.

I emphasize my remark in the subject line. Thermal Resistance! Thermal Resistance! THER-MAL RE-SIS-TANCE!!

There are enough coolers in the sample chosen for comparison that it leaves little doubt.

My only concern is the height of these newer NH-D15 models. Imagine what this will be like.

The new Arrow Lake cores -- not the mobile cores but the desktop models -- are likely going to reduce the thermal wattage at load by 100W in contrast to Raptor Lake. That's the rumor, or not unlikely -- the leak.

I just need to know how long to wait after the October release, so I can pick the right motherboard.
 

WilliamM2

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2012
2,589
604
136
$150 for the ugliest cooler I've ever seen? To gain a couple of degrees? No thank you.

I prefer real world testing on an actual CPU. The surface is not heated equally, as in a simulated test bed like that. They also didn't compare it to very many coolers. No Scythe, Thermalright, etc.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,450
9,354
136
I ask this every time I read a review of one of these monsters. No ones worried about hanging 1.5kg from a MB that's a couple of mm thick?
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,232
12,562
136
I ask this every time I read a review of one of these monsters. No ones worried about hanging 1.5kg from a MB that's a couple of mm thick?
On my 2011 build, (intel i5-760) I used a Noctua NH-U12P SE2 with dual 120mm fans. Weighed in (as far as I can tell) at 970g...so a bit over 2 lbs. When we packed up and moved almost 1000 miles, I used a piece of thin stainless steel wire connected to the cooler's tower and to the case above it. No problems at all. (I moved it 2 more times after that.) When I disassembled it after about 12 years, the paste pattern was still intact and a tiny bit pliable. (Noctua paste)
If that cooler was rated higher for the i5-1300K, (medium turbo/overclocking headroom) I'd be using it today.
 
Reactions: Blazer7

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,097
461
126
I ask this every time I read a review of one of these monsters. No ones worried about hanging 1.5kg from a MB that's a couple of mm thick?
It is not designed to be moved with these large heatsinks in place. Official statements from noctua requires removing the heatsink if you are going to transport the PC. But sitting static (i.e. not moving), the motherboard with the proper backplate frame will distribute the load appropriately. I used a NH-D14 for almost 11 years on the same system without any problems with the motherboard cracking/breaking (yes, it is slightly lighter at 1240g).
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,881
1,550
126
I ask this every time I read a review of one of these monsters. No ones worried about hanging 1.5kg from a MB that's a couple of mm thick?
Answering more than one response here . . .

It's not so much the weight, but the torque. Without fans installed, the pipes and fins are insignificant. For the weight of the heatsink base, no torque there, so no problems.

Now if you add fans, there are ways to provide the same CFM throughput without putting the fan-weight on the cooler. First, duct the case rear output fan to the back of the cooler with a construction of foam art-board, or possibly -- by purchasing a silly-rubber accordion duct by ThermalRight.

I think your biggest risk with one of these coolers is the shipping or moving of the entire computer, so you might remove the fans before doing so.

I might have switched to AIO coolers almost ten years ago. I might have tried custom water-cooling. I was investigating "Rube-Goldberg" evaporative cooling systems. But when it came down to the decision, considering the maintenance and trouble in constructing, the occasional story of leaks and pump failure, I remained committed to air-cooling. At some point, we had CPUs with an IHS fitted to the processor die with a bad paste TIM, so the processors -- stock from the factory and instead of indium solder -- ran hot. Thus emerged an outfit in Texas named "Silicon Lottery". They performed various services. But if you had purchased the CPU in the intel box, they would de-lid it, replace the TIM with Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut after applying Liquid tape to appropriate areas, and ship it back to you for $50 -- with the result of as much as 20C reduction in load temperatures. Meanwhile, the CPU makers have returned to indium solder, or they never stopped using it. It was, as far as I know, exclusively an Intel problem.

So I see all the drawbacks of massive air-coolers in some of the posts here, but I've remained undaunted. A good AIO cooler, for instance, has a pump -- obviously. If it has a pump, then it has a motor, and if it has a motor, it has moving parts. And therefore, it has a limited and finite MTBF. The MTBF for a heatpipe cooler, according to NASA, is 1 million years.

If you don't want to bother with top-end air-cooling, the rumors and leaks about the forthcoming Arrow Lake desktop flagship CPUs include the idea that they will use 100W less power at full load than Raptor Lake -- and therefore 100W less thermal power.

If I can convince myself that I will never want to overclock my Arrow Lake, I can compromise my choice of coolers. Easily.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,450
9,354
136
Answering more than one response here . . .

It's not so much the weight, but the torque. Without fans installed, the pipes and fins are insignificant. For the weight of the heatsink base, no torque there, so no problems.

Now if you add fans, there are ways to provide the same CFM throughput without putting the fan-weight on the cooler. First, duct the case rear output fan to the back of the cooler with a construction of foam art-board, or possibly -- by purchasing a silly-rubber accordion duct by ThermalRight.

I think your biggest risk with one of these coolers is the shipping or moving of the entire computer, so you might remove the fans before doing so.

I might have switched to AIO coolers almost ten years ago. I might have tried custom water-cooling. I was investigating "Rube-Goldberg" evaporative cooling systems. But when it came down to the decision, considering the maintenance and trouble in constructing, the occasional story of leaks and pump failure, I remained committed to air-cooling. At some point, we had CPUs with an IHS fitted to the processor die with a bad paste TIM, so the processors -- stock from the factory and instead of indium solder -- ran hot. Thus emerged an outfit in Texas named "Silicon Lottery". They performed various services. But if you had purchased the CPU in the intel box, they would de-lid it, replace the TIM with Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut after applying Liquid tape to appropriate areas, and ship it back to you for $50 -- with the result of as much as 20C reduction in load temperatures. Meanwhile, the CPU makers have returned to indium solder, or they never stopped using it. It was, as far as I know, exclusively an Intel problem.

So I see all the drawbacks of massive air-coolers in some of the posts here, but I've remained undaunted. A good AIO cooler, for instance, has a pump -- obviously. If it has a pump, then it has a motor, and if it has a motor, it has moving parts. And therefore, it has a limited and finite MTBF. The MTBF for a heatpipe cooler, according to NASA, is 1 million years.

If you don't want to bother with top-end air-cooling, the rumors and leaks about the forthcoming Arrow Lake desktop flagship CPUs include the idea that they will use 100W less power at full load than Raptor Lake -- and therefore 100W less thermal power.

If I can convince myself that I will never want to overclock my Arrow Lake, I can compromise my choice of coolers. Easily.
I've been running an AIO for 6 or 7 years now I guess. Topped up the liquid once when it started to gurgle but apart from that it's been maintenance free.
 

WilliamM2

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2012
2,589
604
136
Answering more than one response here . . .

It's not so much the weight, but the torque. Without fans installed, the pipes and fins are insignificant. For the weight of the heatsink base, no torque there, so no problems.

Now if you add fans, there are ways to provide the same CFM throughput without putting the fan-weight on the cooler. First, duct the case rear output fan to the back of the cooler with a construction of foam art-board, or possibly -- by purchasing a silly-rubber accordion duct by ThermalRight.

I think your biggest risk with one of these coolers is the shipping or moving of the entire computer, so you might remove the fans before doing so.
It's not the fans, most the weight is the the heatsink. My Scythe Mugen 5 weighs 800 grams without fan. The fan weighs 100 grams. Total 900.

Same with the Noctua. Weight (without fans) 1180 g, weight (with fans) 1525 g. Fans are about 170 grams each, they are large.

I don't think either is a problem. My desktop is only moved for cleaning.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,881
1,550
126
It's not the fans, most the weight is the the heatsink. My Scythe Mugen 5 weighs 800 grams without fan. The fan weighs 100 grams. Total 900.

Same with the Noctua. Weight (without fans) 1180 g, weight (with fans) 1525 g. Fans are about 170 grams each, they are large.

I don't think either is a problem. My desktop is only moved for cleaning.
I must have had it wrong all along, but I never thought those fins and pipes carried much weight -- therefore torque on the mounting.

I also agree in thinking there isn't much of a problem. Some brands like ThermalRight produced extra parts -- plastic inserts -- that stabilized mounting on the processor and the motherboard clasp. When I could, I'd take one fan off the heatsink and duct the rear of the heatsink to the case output fan. I would also look for a AP30 Nidec Servo Gentle Typhoon fan. I think those things would max out at 4,000 rpm, but I would control them and keep them quiet except under extreme loads. I would use those AP30 fans for the case output.

Even so, coming back to your assertion -- I should think the heatsink base accounts for a lot of the weight, or significant portion of it. The rest is "pipes and fins". I suppose we'd have to find a discarded heatsink and cut it up, then put the pieces on a scale.
 
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