Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

DisEnchantment · Mar 23, 2022

With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits

History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. - History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

github.com

Or Phoronix

More AMD "GFX940" Enablement Work Landing In LLVM - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.

Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now. First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time! Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3...

forums.anandtech.com

ToTTenTranz · Aug 12, 2024

Mahboi said:
We live in sad times...Nvidia's domination of the market provides no incentive to lower prices from AMD since they convinced every single sheeple that buying AMD is for idiots. Normies won't shift no matter the price, so they might as well keep the price high and wait for a knockout position. It's light jabs to Nvidia until an opening comes.
Also Lisa's just greedy. Muh margins forever. And Jensen is the greediest.

The last time AMD really undercut Nvidia's GPUs for similar performance tier GPUs was on the RV700 / HD4000 series, like 16 years ago.

Ever since then, they've been on a crusade to increase value perception of their dGPUs because ASP means more than units sold and marketshare for their investors. And they've been failing miserably at that since then.

IMO it's mostly because their launch reviews of new architectures are always dominated by negative stuff that has little to do with the chips themselves and their capabilities like choosing terribly loud coolers, pulling too much power from the PCI slot or drivers that don't do the hardware justice (but eventually do so after a year, when everyone's seen the bad reviews already).

For the past 3 years, AMD has been failing to understand that no one is going to attribute value to their dGPUs if no one is buying them.

gdansk · Aug 12, 2024

^ wasn't the RX 580 cheaper for more? And I thought it sold "OK".

marees · Aug 12, 2024

everyone is currently *busy* with the next generation of Radeon graphics cards based on the RDNA 4 GPU architecture.

*BUSY* ?? — more like Radion silence

AMD Radeon RX 7400 與 RX 7300 未出現在 AIB 合作夥伴開發清單中 - BenchLife.info

很大的可能性，它們還沒出現在 AIB 的開發名單中。突然傳出 AMD 有可能推出 Radeon R […]

benchlife-info.translate.goog

igor_kavinski · Aug 12, 2024

marees said:
*BUSY* ?? — more like Radion silence

Calm before the storm. 23rd Aug is when we find out more.

Thunder 57 · Aug 12, 2024

gdansk said:
^ wasn't the RX 580 cheaper for more? And I thought it sold "OK".

It sold OK, but idiot buyers gobbeled up worse Nvidia cards. Same as when idiots bought 3050's instead of RX 6600's at the same price.

poke01 · Aug 12, 2024

Thunder 57 said:
It sold OK, but idiot buyers gobbeled up worse Nvidia cards. Same as when idiots bought 3050's instead of RX 6600's at the same price.

sigh, *marketing* AND mind share. two things AMD cannot get. Maybe this year?

marees · Aug 12, 2024

poke01 said:
sigh, *marketing* AND mind share. two things AMD cannot get. Maybe this year?

I don't see how they can introduce new products at a cheap price when old products still remain unsold

RDNA 2 is still on the shelves.

ToTTenTranz · Aug 12, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
Calm before the storm. 23rd Aug is when we find out more.

Find out more about what? Strix Point and AM5 Zen5 are already out, RDNA4 and Strix Halo are rumored to be coming only in 2025 so it's way too early for those and it's also too early for Zen5 X3D.

Unless there are surprises like some of the above coming before 2025, it looks like there isn't anything to look up to in August 23rd.

IMO the only interesting AMD hardware still reportedly coming in 2024 is the PS5 Pro, but that won't be announced by AMD.

igor_kavinski · Aug 12, 2024

ToTTenTranz said:
Unless there are surprises like some of the above coming before 2025, it looks like there isn't anything to look up to in August 23rd.

AMD needs to announce something (RDNA4 or X3D or even some upcoming AGESA improvements or special Zen 5 optimizations for existing or upcoming games). Otherwise, they will miss an opportunity to score some much needed points with the gaming crowd. The current bad publicity of Zen 5 performance is detrimental to their sales projections.

ToTTenTranz · Aug 12, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
AMD needs to announce something (RDNA4 or X3D or even some upcoming AGESA improvements or special Zen 5 optimizations for existing or upcoming games). Otherwise, they will miss an opportunity to score some much needed points with the gaming crowd. The current bad publicity of Zen 5 performance is detrimental to their sales projections.

I hope you're right and we're getting some surprises, but I doubt it and I also hope they're not announcing hardware that is still 6 months away.

Long gone are the days of Raja's ridiculous "Poor Volta" marketing schemes where they overpromised a year in advance. At least I hope they are.
If they're going to show something, they'd better be selling that thing a couple of months later, at most.

igor_kavinski · Aug 12, 2024

ToTTenTranz said:
If they're going to show something, they'd better be selling that thing a couple of months later, at most.

Most likely X3D coz that's AMD's strategy to rain on Intel's Arrow Lake parade.

beginner99 · Aug 14, 2024

gdansk said:
^ wasn't the RX 580 cheaper for more? And I thought it sold "OK".

Well it was overall just "ok" especially since firesale 290x still offered better performance per dollar.

blckgrffn · Aug 14, 2024

marees said:
I don't see how they can introduce new products at a cheap price when old products still remain unsold

RDNA 2 is still on the shelves.

RDNA 2 will still be on the shelves for quite a while after RDNA4 is shipping in volume.

You can still get a new 5450 or GT 730 at Microcenter today Multiple models even!

But really, there are still plenty of even older cards still lingering in some apparent volume out there. But knowing how many are in stock at retailers or how many are in containers right now vs how many RDNA3 and the latest cards are in the pipe its hard to *really* know what's going on.

And I don't think that plays nearly as much into AMD's plans as their own lifecycle management and purchasing plans do.

ToTTenTranz · Aug 14, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
Most likely X3D coz that's AMD's strategy to rain on Intel's Arrow Lake parade.

Meanwhile, I remembered they haven't announced any SKU with Kraken, which might be a good candidate for the Steam Deck 2 or other sub-15W PC gaming handhelds.

blckgrffn said:
RDNA 2 will still be on the shelves for quite a while after RDNA4 is shipping in volume.

Moreover, N7 isn't really a top-end process node anymore and the wafers are probably cheaper, so maybe they can make use of it to sell bigger GPUs on weaker markets like South America or Southeast Asia.

marees · Aug 15, 2024

ToTTenTranz said:
Meanwhile, I remembered they haven't announced any SKU with Kraken, which might be a good candidate for the Steam Deck 2 or other sub-15W PC gaming handhelds.

Moreover, N7 isn't really a top-end process node anymore and the wafers are probably cheaper, so maybe they can make use of it to sell bigger GPUs on weaker markets like South America or Southeast Asia.

TSMC wants to move customers on n7 to n6

Radeon products on n6:
Navi 24 (6400 xt no need for extra power connector)
Navi 33 (7600 xt / 7600 / 7500xt etc. )

No other RDNA 2 product is on N6. I think AMD would have stopped producing n7 chips 2 years ago.

Edit:
Zen 3 CPUs are on N6. That should be more profitable than GPUs

jpiniero · Aug 15, 2024

I assume AMD stopped producing RDNA2 shortly after Crypto died. But it's taken this long to get rid of the supply.

Mopetar · Aug 15, 2024

They probably kept some of it going when they realized that RDNA 3 was having problems. They would have had a giant hole in their product stack otherwise.

jpiniero · Aug 15, 2024

Mopetar said:
They probably kept some of it going when they realized that RDNA 3 was having problems. They would have had a giant hole in their product stack otherwise.

I remember reading that they were using year+ old chips to make new RDNA2 boards. Might still be the case.

ToTTenTranz · Aug 16, 2024

marees said:
TSMC wants to move customers on n7 to n6

Radeon products on n6:
Navi 24 (6400 xt no need for extra power connector)
Navi 33 (7600 xt / 7600 / 7500xt etc. )

No other RDNA 2 product is on N6. I think AMD would have stopped producing n7 chips 2 years ago.

Higher clocked Navi 33 might go through N22 territory, but I wonder if putting Navi 21 on N6 would be a profitable endeavour.

marees · Aug 16, 2024

ToTTenTranz said:
I wonder if putting Navi 21 on N6 would be a profitable endeavour.

I believe N32 on 5nm gcd/6nm mcd should address the same market.

I believe AMD would rather produce a 5500 x3d than a GPU on 6nm. The GPU market seems to be very down in general, looking at mindfactory numbers

beginner99 · Aug 16, 2024

marees said:
I believe AMD would rather produce a 5500 x3d than a GPU on 6nm. The GPU market seems to be very down in general, looking at mindfactory numbers

No joke, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that someone said will happen here I think almost 10 years ago. These high prices basically remove a large fraction of the possible market. the performance level of $200-$300 cards is atrocious. used cards tend to offer better. and with the market volume going down, this kind if thinking starts and the market gets worse and worse.
All we need however is intel to kind if break this what is essentially a monopoly.

Aapje · Aug 16, 2024

If the advancement in chips slow down, Intel won't save us.

TESKATLIPOKA · Aug 16, 2024

Aapje said:
If the advancement in chips slow down, Intel won't save us.

It's already a crawl.

ToTTenTranz · Aug 17, 2024

marees said:
I believe N32 on 5nm gcd/6nm mcd should address the same market.

Remains to be seen if N32 @5nm + 6nm is cheaper to produce than N21 @6nm, considering the packaging costs.

If the full N32 clocked the way it should, it'd be faster than N21 for sure and that's probably what AMD designed its SKUs for.
As it stands, we don't really know which solution would be cheaper for the same performance target (or even slightly higher on N21 in many cases).

Mahboi · Aug 19, 2024

ToTTenTranz said:
The last time AMD really undercut Nvidia's GPUs for similar performance tier GPUs was on the RV700 / HD4000 series, like 16 years ago.

Ever since then, they've been on a crusade to increase value perception of their dGPUs because ASP means more than units sold and marketshare for their investors. And they've been failing miserably at that since then.

IMO it's mostly because their launch reviews of new architectures are always dominated by negative stuff that has little to do with the chips themselves and their capabilities like choosing terribly loud coolers, pulling too much power from the PCI slot or drivers that don't do the hardware justice (but eventually do so after a year, when everyone's seen the bad reviews already).

For the past 3 years, AMD has been failing to understand that no one is going to attribute value to their dGPUs if no one is buying them.

WUT? No. That's dead wrong.
If it was a fair fight yes, but Nvidia has brilliant marketing that weaponises their buyers into being their simps. Go on Reddit or most social media places and get insulted for even suggesting buying AMD. Ask someone about Nvidia with any kind of criticism and get told "go buy AMD, it's what you deserve".

When you don't have a great product or great stack, and the competition has effectively reined in the support of innumerable amounts of simps in a cult that expects all Cultists to keep buying, praising, thanking Nvidia, lest they get kicked out, you hunker down and sell what you can. It's just that AMD won't sell below 10% of Nvidia's price/perf, since they'd just lose money. They don't attract new buyers off Nvidia due to the Cult mentality, and they would just be selling to their usual crowd for less.

To break the cycle, they either need a better product or to get their marketing to stop smelling skunk butt. Get a story going where AMD is fighting for better GPUs than Nvidia's endless money hole of promises. Or get something that flatly puts Nvidia behind. Right now their marketing is worse than ever and the products aren't following either.

Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

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