Question An example of how Nvidia is a cancer for graphics technology progress

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Jul 27, 2020
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Are you scared of competition?
Is it competition that causes Apple and Nvidia prices to stay high? The Dell XPS Snapdragon Elite laptop with 64GB RAM can now be had for $1599. I don't see an Apple laptop with that much RAM getting discounted any time soon. Ditto if Nvidia SoCs show up in gaming laptops. Sheeple will gulp them down and ruin the market for everyone.
 
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poke01

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2022
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Is it competition that causes Apple and Nvidia prices to stay high? The Dell XPS Snapdragon Elite laptop with 64GB RAM can now be had for $1599. I don't see an Apple laptop with that much RAM getting discounted any time soon. Ditto if Nvidia SoCs show up in gaming laptops. Sheeple will gulp them down and ruin the market for everyone.
You can find discounted prices on Apple laptops.


Of course you’re not getting 64GB RAM but the CPU, GPU is much better on the M3 series. Like video editing, code compilation rendering, encoding etc is much better on the M3 series.

Unlike Nvidia, Apple allows its resellers to discount massively.
 

poke01

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2022
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Sheeple will gulp them down and ruin the market for everyone.
You’re just arguing in bad faith. The result of M1 competition resulted in Lunar Lake. If you don’t like how Apple prices their stuff, then don’t buy it. People value different things and buy accordingly. A 64GB RAM laptop with an okay CPU and a crap GPU is only suitable for a very very tiny amount of professional users where the even base M3 Pro SoC with 18GB will go circles around the X Elite with 64GB in many use cases.

As for Nvidia WoA laptops it might make WoA gaming viable for others like Qualcomm and make that area better.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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A 64GB RAM laptop with an okay CPU and a crap GPU is only suitable for a very very tiny amount of professional users where the even base M3 Pro SoC with 18GB will go circles around the X Elite with 64GB in many use cases.
That's Apple marketing speak.

I just need to list one pretty common use case that will render the M3 18GB laptop useless: heavy multi-tabbed browsing.

And the SSD on that laptop is gonna die early because of the low RAM due to paging.
 
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poke01

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And the SSD on that laptop is gonna die early because of the low RAM due to paging
define early. I still use a 2019 MBP with 16GB with over 400TB written and 3.04PB read on the SSD mostly heavy web and coding. It’s been 4 years of daily use and if it dies I get replaced under Australian consumer laws for free.

You can also disable swap in macOS if your that worried. 18GB is more than enough for more than 100 tabs with Apple Sillicon these M3’s fly with >16GB RAM.

Note, I’m not defending Apples dogcrap RAM prices but 64GB is NOT required for heavy multi-tab browsing and single core performance also benefits browser performance which the M3 Pro has an advantage in.
———
anyway the point I’m trying to make is that the more alternatives the better. That’s the point of a free market. WoA isn’t in a good state and with Nvidia and MediaTek it can provide an alternative platform to x86 which Qualcomm also benefits from. You mentioned the 64GB RAM laptop, that wouldn’t exist without competition. I don’t see Intel MTL or AMD Strix Point or Apple M3 selling 64GB RAM laptops at $1599 and Qualcomm is because they are desperate for sales because Strix Point makes X Elite nearly irrelevant for most users.
 

TESKATLIPOKA

Platinum Member
May 1, 2020
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define early. I still use a 2019 MBP with 16GB with over 400TB written and 3.04PB read on the SSD mostly heavy web and coding. It’s been 4 years of daily use and if it dies I get replaced under Australian consumer laws for free.
You have an extended warranty or what? I don't think the standard warranty is that long in Australia, but I didn't check It.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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anyway the point I’m trying to make is that the more alternatives the better. That’s the point of a free market. WoA isn’t in a good state and with Nvidia and MediaTek it can provide an alternative platform to x86 which Qualcomm also benefits from.
Maybe. Only time will tell.
 
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poke01

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Mar 8, 2022
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You have an extended warranty or what? I don't think the standard warranty is that long in Australia, but I didn't check It.
Standard warranty is 1 year in Australia but the ACL which Apple must abide by.

My friend got a his iPhone 12 replaced for free after it broke logic board died this year after 3 years the warranty expired because of the ACL. That’s a $1300AUD phone, a MacBook will have much more weight.

 

DavidC1

Golden Member
Dec 29, 2023
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Is it competition that causes Apple and Nvidia prices to stay high?
Yes they have no competition. Nothing significant anyway.

Instagram and many other apps require you to have a Smartphone. It has a desktop application but it's complete trash. Many sectors do not have a PC sector at all. Zero. Nada. Wintel ecosystem is dying. Very slowly, but it is. Now the representative company of Wintel, Intel itself is in serious trouble. $46 billion debt with ~$50 billion total revenue. Hey, it looks like Intel is representative of average America, having 90% of revenue as debt vs US government having 120%.

That's a real threat. I'm forced to install it on my phone if I want that app, and many, many do. I can't use Telegram without authenticating it with the phone first either.

Apple created all this. And they are still absolute monopoly. Sure they might have only 20% or so of the volumeshare, but where do you think all the money goes? The profits? 20% market, 50% revenue share, and 85% operating margin share. Now take the leftover, and assume that much is taken over by something. The dozen or so vendors are fighting for the scraps.

Nvidia is similar too. Aren't they the highest valued company now? Sure that's all monopoly money, propped up by endless money printing. But still.
 

TESKATLIPOKA

Platinum Member
May 1, 2020
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Nvidia is similar too. Aren't they the highest valued company now? Sure that's all monopoly money, propped up by endless money printing. But still.
No, Nvidia is 3rd and once more valued at >3trillion.

I am looking and looking, but to me It still looks like US companies are ridiculously overvalued compared to the rest of the world.
 
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DavidC1

Golden Member
Dec 29, 2023
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No, Nvidia is 3rd and once more valued at >3trillion.
View attachment 105635
Practically identical.

Here's the news few months ago: https://apnews.com/article/nvidia-a...arket-nasdaq-b1e79cf391f212a4714433afd140e341

$3.334 Trillion​

Nvidia’s total market value as of the close Tuesday. It edged past Microsoft ($3.317 trillion). Apple is the third most-valuable company ($3.286 trillion). One year ago, the company had just crossed the $1 trillion threshold.
 

TESKATLIPOKA

Platinum Member
May 1, 2020
2,555
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Practically identical.

Here's the news few months ago: https://apnews.com/article/nvidia-a...arket-nasdaq-b1e79cf391f212a4714433afd140e341

$3.334 Trillion​

Nvidia’s total market value as of the close Tuesday. It edged past Microsoft ($3.317 trillion). Apple is the third most-valuable company ($3.286 trillion). One year ago, the company had just crossed the $1 trillion threshold.
Yeah, It was that high, but the It dropped to less than 2.6Trillion just a week ago, but now once more the market cap grows.
I find It ridiculous, that a company loses hundreds of billions of Its value in a matter of days and nothing. Investors had to loose a sh*tload of money or at least those who bought It when It was high. This is worse than a lottery.
 
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TESKATLIPOKA

Platinum Member
May 1, 2020
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Nvidia just become the second most valued company overtaking Microsoft by 40billion.


P.S. I seriously don't understand how a company can have a market value 39.5x more than It's revenue and 64.2x more than pretax income, especially If this is just because of AI boom, which will crash at some point.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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Apple - The Fruit Company

Nvidia - The Bubble Company

Microsoft - The Company that adores The Fruit Company

Alphabet - The "Try as much as we want but we can't seem to monetize anything other than ads" Company

Amazon - The "Why Da F aren't we No.1" Company
 

ToTTenTranz

Member
Feb 4, 2021
182
313
106
I am looking and looking, but to me It still looks like US companies are ridiculously overvalued compared to the rest of the world.


Yes, they literally are.


American tech companies like Apple, Microsoft and Alphabet have a price-over-earnings ratio around 30-35.
TSMC and Aramco in that list have their PE ratio at 12.

Nvidia is obviously the most ridiculous with a PE ratio of 76. Last year it reached its record of 276.



A standard rule of thumb among investors is that a PE ratio above 20 (i.e. if nothing changes, the earnings will take 20 years to pay for the shares at that price) is too much.

American tech companies right now have their share value based off the assumption of infinite growth, which is kind of ridiculous in a company with a rather focused market like Nvidia.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,612
4,469
136
Nvidia just become the second most valued company overtaking Microsoft by 40billion.
View attachment 105768

P.S. I seriously don't understand how a company can have a market value 39.5x more than It's revenue and 64.2x more than pretax income, especially If this is just because of AI boom, which will crash at some point.

For a tech company it shouldnt even reach 39.5x its net income, more like 20-25x at best, that s giant bubbles proped up by a gigantic amounts of wanabee investors, at some point the few, and bigger, ones in the know will be in vast short positions just before the whole thing collapse.
 

TESKATLIPOKA

Platinum Member
May 1, 2020
2,555
3,104
136
For a tech company it shouldnt even reach 39.5x its net income, more like 20-25x at best, that s giant bubbles proped up by a gigantic amounts of wanabee investors, at some point the few, and bigger, ones in the know will be in vast short positions just before the whole thing collapse.
10 most valued US companies and their P/E ratio:
Apple: 34.6
Nvidia: 10.3 (had 10:1 stock split this year, that's why so low)
Microsoft: 35.8
Google: 31.4
Amazon: 96.4
Meta: 51.1
Berkshire Hathaway: 11.6
Broadcom: 7.53
Lilly: 170
Tesla: 64.2
Just

Some think a correction will happen, but I think that's pretty optimistic. It could very well end up in something much worse.
 
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