Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	12 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	12 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

biostud · Aug 20, 2024

Wolverine2349 said:
I threw in towel AND THUS SOLD or returned on any 13th or 14th Gen part because of stability and degradation issues. SO never really tested it,
I have a 7800X3D right now.

But if they have a 12 P core on a single ring bus Raptor Lake and it has stability issues fixed (I would think given new die or otherwise Intel will not make it), I am for sure a buyer. If it has the 8 + 16 RPL die stability and degradation issues, a hard pass despite me wanting such a product.

Would you trust Intel enough to buy such a 12P processor at launch? Or how many months would you wait?

Wolverine2349 · Aug 20, 2024

biostud said:
Would you trust Intel enough to buy such a 12P processor at launch? Or how many months would you wait?

I will play that by ear. I think I would trust it at launch as long as it's determined that the issue is with the current stepping and not a design flaw in Raptor Lake itself.

Cause Alder Lake stepping are reliable and stable also on same 10nm node.

If there is some flaw with cache or ring structure of RPL (have heard rumors there may be and not just a stepping issue) and it is not stepping than no unless intel makes it Alder Lake based. Those I suppose its possible those flaws are based on the current die or they could be based on Raptor Cove cores and the ring and cache not sure. If its the latter its a hard pass.

Not sure what to do. Given its coming out in 1 year, hard to wait a few months. If it was out like now then yes I would wiat a few minutes. Hope to have more data for a good informed decision by then given its tardy release date.

ondma · Aug 20, 2024

SiliconFly said:
Yep. If any reviewers are using some special settings in benchmarks that casual users don't understand or able to replicate, then it amounts to cheating.

Its not cheating really, but they should make clear they are using some special settings.

511 · Aug 20, 2024

Reviewer using XMP they should compare JEDEC as well cause freaking 90% of users run it

Doug S · Aug 20, 2024

511 said:
Reviewer using XMP they should compare JEDEC as well cause freaking 90% of users run it

Maybe they need two results, one is "this is the performance typical users who mostly use defaults will see" and "this is the best you can get if you perform the full list of optimizations/tweaks listed in the footnotes".

It is really no different than if they overclocked the CPU by 500 MHz in their results. Just like core parking, buying faster RAM and tweaking it, and so forth, that's just another optimization to get more performance, right? But I have a feeling more people would find that to be "cheating" than the stuff they're currently doing. Not sure why.

dullard · Aug 20, 2024

Doug S said:
Maybe they need two results, one is "this is the performance typical users who mostly use defaults will see" and "this is the best you can get if you perform the full list of optimizations/tweaks listed in the footnotes".

Exactly. All good reviews do this. Spec memory/clocks/settings (which is what almost all users will see when they buy a Dell, HP, Lenovo, or similar). Then max everything (which throws money and power consumption concerns out the window).

jdubs03 · Aug 21, 2024

Hot off the press:

Intel Core Ultra 9 285K, the flagship Arrow Lake-CPU spotted on Geekbench with 5.7 GHz clock - VideoCardz.com

Core Ultra 9 285K finally on Geekbench The next-gen desktop flagship is almost here. Intel is expected to unveil its new desktop series in a few weeks. The development process is advanced, and most board partners already have access to nearly final silicon known as Qualification Samples. These...

videocardz.com

Based on the chart within, ST is about 11% higher than the 14900K and MT is about 10% higher.

Det0x · Aug 21, 2024

*already posted*

As a comparison, this is my OC'ed 9950X

DokiDoki · Aug 21, 2024

Det0x said:
*already posted*

As a comparison, this is my OC'ed 9950X
View attachment 105867

Bleurgh...you cannot even beat the competition with a ~300 MHz advantage in the most commonly used tasks from the end-user perspective.

ASUS System Product Name vs ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench

cebri1 · Aug 21, 2024

So 11% faster than the 14900K? Seems off.

edit: sorry, already mentioned.

H433x0n · Aug 21, 2024

There’s some really good news in these results. If you dig into the subtests, ARL gets wins in text processing and HTML5. It’s only real big losses are object detection and background blur both of which are accelerated by AVX512.

So if you go by just the int performance, ARL looks promising against Zen 5.

poke01 · Aug 21, 2024

cebri1 said:
So 11% faster than the 14900K? Seems off.

why? Its supposed be higher in ST, lacks HT(increases ST) and is on a much better node.

cebri1 · Aug 21, 2024

poke01 said:
why? Its supposed be higher in ST, lacks HT(increases ST) and is on a much better node.

If you take into account the IPC increase and the clock regression should be under 10%. People were expecting close to 3-5% improvement.

coercitiv · Aug 21, 2024

Sinners rejoice, the E-core voltage rail deliverance is finally upon us!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1826072744120955299

PS: in case anyone is confused, Asus managed to leak Intel Z890 footage in an article meant to support the AMD x870e chipset launch.

SiliconFly · Aug 21, 2024

Det0x said:
*already posted*

As a comparison, this is my OC'ed 9950X
View attachment 105867

Yours is overclocked. Normal 9950X will be 3.5% slower than Core Ultra 9 285K.

Abwx · Aug 21, 2024

SiliconFly said:
Yours is overclocked. Normal 9950X will be 3.5% slower than Core Ultra 9 285K.

This change nothing, 14900K and 9950X score 3236 and 3427 in ST respectively, both using stock speed RAM at 5600, this 285K GB submission use 6400 RAM and 5.7GHz ST frequency, so the 9950X is certainly not 3.5% slower in ST at stock RAM speeds.

511 · Aug 21, 2024

Abwx said:
This change nothing, 14900K and 9950X score 3236 and 3427 in ST respectively, both using stock speed RAM at 5600, this 285K GB submission use 6400 RAM and 5.7GHz ST frequency, so the 9950X is certainly not 3.5% slower in ST at stock RAM speeds.

6400MT/s is the supposedly official speed for Ultra 9 285K,9950X is 5600 according to AMD so both running at STOCK

Tup3x · Aug 21, 2024

jdubs03 said:
Hot off the press:

Intel Core Ultra 9 285K, the flagship Arrow Lake-CPU spotted on Geekbench with 5.7 GHz clock - VideoCardz.com

Core Ultra 9 285K finally on Geekbench The next-gen desktop flagship is almost here. Intel is expected to unveil its new desktop series in a few weeks. The development process is advanced, and most board partners already have access to nearly final silicon known as Qualification Samples. These...

videocardz.com

Based on the chart within, ST is about 11% higher than the 14900K and MT is about 10% higher.

Looks pretty nice. Now it all comes down to power usage.

SiliconFly · Aug 21, 2024

Abwx said:
This change nothing, 14900K and 9950X score 3236 and 3427 in ST respectively, both using stock speed RAM at 5600, this 285K GB submission use 6400 RAM and 5.7GHz ST frequency, so the 9950X is certainly not 3.5% slower in ST at stock RAM speeds.

It matters a lot. Looks like Zen5 isn't that good compared to ARL. Seems both are actually running at stock.

511 said:
6400MT/s is the supposedly official speed for Ultra 9 285K,9950X is 5600 according to AMD so both running at STOCK

TwistedAndy · Aug 21, 2024

Also, there are some results for Geekbench 5. The P-core in Intel Core 285K matches the one in Apple M4:

That's not a fully fair comparison because of the Geekbench Windows tax, but it is pretty interesting.

Det0x · Aug 21, 2024

TwistedAndy said:
Also, there are some results for Geekbench 5. The P-core in Intel Core 285K matches the one in Apple M4:

View attachment 105879

That's not a fully fair comparison because of the Geekbench Windows tax, but it is pretty interesting.

Seems like the 285K does alittle worse in GB5 ST than GB6 ST in comparison against the same OC'ed 9950X (?)

ASUS System Product Name vs ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench

Abwx · Aug 21, 2024

511 said:
6400MT/s is the supposedly official speed for Ultra 9 285K,9950X is 5600 according to AMD so both running at STOCK

Supposedly...

And the submission was made at JEDEC lose timings for DDR 6400 you think.?.

Anyway even at 6400 it score a paltry 0.67% better than the 9950X at 5600.

SiliconFly said:
It matters a lot. Looks like Zen5 isn't that good compared to ARL. Seems both are actually running at stock.

9950X run within 200W while ARL is at 250W, and Intel already made a reservation for 297W/329W PL2/PL4 in case 250W still falling short in a lot of benches, wich will be likely the case if we look at the 43118 pts CB R23 score at 250W.

SiliconFly · Aug 21, 2024

TwistedAndy said:
Also, there are some results for Geekbench 5. The P-core in Intel Core 285K matches the one in Apple M4:

View attachment 105879

That's not a fully fair comparison because of the Geekbench Windows tax, but it is pretty interesting.

Very interesting! But I don't think it's fair to compare a sub-28W M4 with a 285K that runs at excess of 100W or something.

DokiDoki · Aug 21, 2024

Det0x said:
Seems like the 285K does alittle worse in GB5 ST than GB6 ST in comparison against the same OC'ed 9950X (?)

Yawn...same integer score as your OC'd 9950X ES.

Next.

SiliconFly · Aug 21, 2024

Abwx said:
Supposedly...

And the submission was made at JEDEC lose timings for DDR 6400 you think.?.

Anyway even at 6400 it score a paltry 0.67% better than the 9950X at 5600.

9950X run within 200W while ARL is at 250W, and Intel already made a reservation for 297W/329W PL2/PL4 in case 250W still falling short in a lot of benches, wich will be likely the case if we look at the 43118 pts CB R23 score at 250W.

Nope. Check the videocardzGB6 numbers (all stock). 9950X is 3335 & 285K is 3450. That puts 285K around 3.5% ahead of 9950X.

Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Senior member

Attachments

Lifer

Senior member

Platinum Member

Senior member

Platinum Member

Elite Member

Senior member

Attachments

Golden Member

Member

Senior member

Golden Member

Golden Member

Senior member

Diamond Member

Golden Member

Lifer

Attachments

Senior member

Golden Member

Golden Member

Member

Golden Member

Lifer

Golden Member

Member

Golden Member