Question Need help choosing a high end CPU for a workstation dedicated to audio production and sound engineering.

Futuremotion · Sep 5, 2024

I am an electronic music producer and sound engineer, and I haven't updated my CPU in about four years.

Right now I'm currently rocking a Core i9-9900KF and I desperately need an upgrade so I can run more CPU intensive VST plugins and VSTi instruments.

I am planning an upgrade this month, but I'm extremely (understatement) frustrated with the current offering when it comes to CPUs.

I originally bought a Core i9-14900KF and motherboard about a month ago, but ended up returning it after hearing everywhere about all the instability issues with Intel 14th gen. People were saying that intel is basically selling defective chips that will most likely degrade heavily over time. I've read this on numerous forums (Here, Overclock.net, Tom's Hardware).

So I've been biding my time for the Ryzen 9 9950X and planning on switching to AMD for the first time in my life. But now after reading reviews of the 9950X, it appears this chip also has a nasty problem. Specifically the PPM Provisioning driver. See quote from the AnandTech Review:

Unfortunately, the issues we experienced with the PPM Provisioning driver, despite following all of AMD's guidelines and then some, has undermined this launch. So far we've seen core parking cause quite a few issues in performance, most notably in gaming. If it was an issue limited to just our testing, that could be negated, but having checked with a few of our colleagues, it looks to be a widespread issue. Something just doesn't seem to be working in the core parking department, as we ourselves have observed random cores from the parked CCX firing up randomly and taking game threads with them, and this in itself seems in defiance of what AMD is trying to achieve by running gaming workloads within a single CCX.

Tom's Hardware also lists "Core parking and thread targeting issues" in its review as a "Con".

Is this an issue that will affect a pro audio setup? Will the PPM driver issue and core parking problems be detrimental to an audio workload, or just for gaming?

What I really need is:

Low latency (DPC Latency)
Rock solid stability when it comes to running virtual instruments and effects.
Great single threaded performance for the most demanding synths (u-He Diva comes to mind)
Exceptional multi threaded performance so I can run many virtual instruments at the same time.

So I guess, tl;dr:

Have the issues with the 14th gen Intel chips (specifically the i9-14900K/i9-14900KF) been resolved or mitigated at this point?
Will the core parking and thread targeting issues being reported with the 9950X cause problems with an audio production workload?

Can someone please recommend the best way forward? Should I roll the dice with a 14900K, or go with the 9950X?

I truly appreciate any help or guidance.

Thanks so much.

Markfw · Sep 5, 2024

The 9950x is a great CPU. The only thing is if you are a gamer, its rated below the 16% gain that AMD said. But in other things it screams. I am not an expert at the things you mention, so I can't say how it will do in those, but without any high end Intel to chose from, its your only bet and its IS a great CPU (I have one)

Futuremotion · Sep 5, 2024

Markfw said:
The 9950x is a great CPU. The only thing is if you are a gamer, its rated below the 16% gain that AMD said. But in other things it screams. I am not an expert at the things you mention, so I can't say how it will do in those, but without any high end Intel to chose from, its your only bet and its IS a great CPU (I have one)

Awesome. Great to hear from someone who actually owns the chip. My main worry is the core parking problems introducing lag into my workflow. Latency is extremely important in audio workloads. I am definitely leaning towards the 9950x right now unless someone can change my mind with a logical argument.

Mahboi · Sep 5, 2024

Futuremotion said:
What I really need is:

Low latency (DPC Latency)

Rock solid stability when it comes to running virtual instruments and effects.

Great single threaded performance for the most demanding synths (u-He Diva comes to mind)

Exceptional multi threaded performance so I can run many virtual instruments at the same time.

No clue about u-He Diva performance for the 9950x. It can't be worse than the 7950x which already was real close to the 14900k.
Intel's fattest cores are still a lot fatter than AMD's best, so the latency will probably always be a tiny bit better. But you want multicore perf, which Intel sucks at since they have excessive power draw on 14th gen.

Futuremotion said:
So I guess, tl;dr:

Have the issues with the 14th gen Intel chips (specifically the i9-14900K/i9-14900KF) been resolved or mitigated at this point?

No, and will not be. It's a systemic design failure, we're 99% sure of it. No microcode will change anything.

Futuremotion said:
Will the core parking and thread targeting issues being reported with the 9950X cause problems with an audio production workload?

No and they'll be fixed anyway. That's software fixable.

Futuremotion said:
Can someone please recommend the best way forward? Should I roll the dice with a 14900K, or go with the 9950X?

The only things that make sense right now is to wait for Arrow Lake/15900k and see then, or to buy the 9950X.

Mahboi · Sep 5, 2024

For what that's worth...

AMD Ryzen 9 9950X & Ryzen 9 9900X Deliver Excellent Linux Performance Review - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

Futuremotion · Sep 5, 2024

Mahboi said:
No clue about u-He Diva performance for the 9950x. It can't be worse than the 7950x which already was real close to the 14900k.
Intel's fattest cores are still a lot fatter than AMD's best, so the latency will probably always be a tiny bit better. But you want multicore perf, which Intel sucks at since they have excessive power draw on 14th gen.

No, and will not be. It's a systemic design failure, we're 99% sure of it. No microcode will change anything.

No and they'll be fixed anyway. That's software fixable.

The only things that make sense right now is to wait for Arrow Lake/15900k and see then, or to buy the 9950X.

Thanks so much for the breakdown. Good to know that the core parking hiccups are likely to be fixed. Now definitely leaning more towards the 9950X. I'd wait for Arrow Lake, but I really need an upgrade now. When Arrow lake finally comes out I'll just slap the 9950X into another spare machine if arrow lake truly is an upgrade and won't explode.

Mahboi · Sep 5, 2024

Futuremotion said:
Thanks so much for the breakdown. Good to know that the core parking hiccups are likely to be fixed. Now definitely leaning more towards the 9950X. I'd wait for Arrow Lake, but I really need an upgrade now.

Your CPU died or went way too weak for your needs?

Futuremotion · Sep 5, 2024

Mahboi said:
View attachment 106889
For what that's worth...

AMD Ryzen 9 9950X & Ryzen 9 9900X Deliver Excellent Linux Performance Review - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

Wow, totally missed that! Hype! I think I'm sold now. 9950X it is. Thanks for showing me that benchmark.

Futuremotion · Sep 5, 2024

Mahboi said:
Your CPU died or went way too weak for your needs?

Way too weak for my needs, and I think it's also degraded. When I restart windows at stock BIOS settings, a lot of times the computer will just boot to a blank screen and never fully make it to windows. I suppose that doesn't mean it's the CPU, but it's alarming nonetheless. Oddly enough, if I overclock the CPU, disable C-States, set LLC to Turbo, I don't get the black screen problem. I just think the chip is on its last legs. And again, yes, I need a much beefier CPU and faster ram to fully handle all the VSTs I throw at it during the composition process.

Mahboi · Sep 5, 2024

Futuremotion said:
Way too weak for my needs, and I think it's also degraded. When I restart windows at stock BIOS settings, a lot of times the computer will just boot to a blank screen and never fully make it to windows. I suppose that doesn't mean it's the CPU, but it's alarming nonetheless. Oddly enough, if I overclock the CPU, disable C-States, set LLC to Turbo, I don't get the black screen problem. I just think the chip is on its last legs. And again, yes, I need a much beefier CPU and faster ram to fully handle all the VSTs I throw at it during the composition process.

Ooooh, yeah that sounds CPU or RAM. In any case, core.
In any case yep you are better off buying 9950X IMO, along with a big DDR-5 6000 kit with good latency.
It's a bit sad to buy now since the AMD idiots poorly calculated the release date for the X870 motherboards, but the standing X670 are still fine, just somewhat older and will probably have less ports.

Futuremotion · Sep 5, 2024

Mahboi said:
Ooooh, yeah that sounds CPU or RAM. In any case, core.
In any case yep you are better off buying 9950X IMO, along with a big DDR-5 6000 kit with good latency.
It's a bit sad to buy now since the AMD idiots poorly calculated the release date for the X870 motherboards, but the standing X670 are still fine, just somewhat older and will probably have less ports.

Yeah good call. You sold me. I actually already bought a ram kit (It's sitting next to me waiting for a home):

Corsair Dominator Titanium RGB DDR5 64GB (2x32GB) 6600MHz CL32 Intel XMP

I purchased this kit when I was going Intel, but now that I'm going AMD I'm a little worried about compatibility. Can I run this ram in an AM5 board? Will I have to downclock to 6000MHz? Or should I buy a new kit with EXPO? I couldn't find very many EXPO kits around anywhere @ 64GB / 96GB.

Mahboi · Sep 5, 2024

It should work just fine, but you might be slightly underusing it (I.E lowering frequency to 6000Mhz will work just fine, but the kit may not adjust its timings perfectly for 6000Mhz since it was factory programmed for 6600Mhz, so YMMV).
I'm not sure how much EXPO brings to you, someone more capable with memory timings than me may help you, I don't touch memory optimisation because I still enjoy being sane.

Amazon.com

That should work I think, but ultimately any factory timings at 6000Mhz should do fine.

Oh now that I think on it: AMD has got an annoying AF memory optimisation routine on first boot, so your PC will look like it's not starting for literally several minutes, just let it run. (also they take several dozens of seconds on any boot and that's why I'm happy with my DDR 4 instant boot system lel)

Futuremotion · Sep 5, 2024

Mahboi said:
Oh now that I think on it: AMD has got an annoying AF memory optimisation routine on first boot, so your PC will look like it's not starting for literally several minutes, just let it run. (also they take several dozens of seconds on any boot and that's why I'm happy with my DDR 4 instant boot system lel)

Yuck. Thanks for the heads up, I'll keep my eye out for that behavior.

Markfw · Sep 5, 2024

Futuremotion said:
Yuck. Thanks for the heads up, I'll keep my eye out for that behavior.

Also, if not too late your best deal for low latency memory is 6000 EXPO (the AMD variant of XMP CL30 or less if they have it now. I will look and update my post with a link.

This is what you want

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-ddr5-6000/p/N82E16820374518

Mahboi · Sep 5, 2024

Futuremotion said:
Yuck. Thanks for the heads up, I'll keep my eye out for that behavior.

If you do get the system, I'd love to hear back from you.
I'm curious about how well the 9950X will do for you and your use case, I know sound engineers take a ton of CPU power but we don't hear much from them typically.
Especially since you had a 14900k even temporarily, I'm curious about how the system feels for your workload, latency, reactivity and all.

Futuremotion · Sep 5, 2024

Mahboi said:
If you do get the system, I'd love to hear back from you.
I'm curious about how well the 9950X will do for you and your use case, I know sound engineers take a ton of CPU power but we don't hear much from them typically.
Especially since you had a 14900k even temporarily, I'm curious about how the system feels for your workload, latency, reactivity and all.

I will totally report back with my experience. There is a user on reddit that replied to my post saying he's already using it for audio/music production and says it's working amazingly. So that's a good sign!

I do need a ton of CPU power for running demanding analog synth emulations, some of the latest VSTi instruments and VST effects are very CPU hungry because they are literally modelling the circuitry of the unit to ensure maximum realism and a "true" analog sound.

But multi-threading is also very important because my DAW will be running around 10-50 plugins simultaneously in different threads (depending on the complexity of the project).

Either way, I'll definitely share my experience once I get it all up and running. I'll do some benchmarks too so others who are on the fence can benefit from the information as well.

On a side note, having DDR4-3600 CL16 RAM at the moment... I can't freakin' wait for 6000MT/s RAM. So hyped to finally put together this new build.

Futuremotion · Sep 5, 2024

Markfw said:
Also, if not too late your best deal for low latency memory is 6000 EXPO (the AMD variant of XMP CL30 or less if they have it now. I will look and update my post with a link.

This is what you want

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-ddr5-6000/p/N82E16820374518

Unfortunately I'm outside the return window of my current ram. This is what I bought:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CHSJGCJ2?psc=1

Will the RAM that you just linked me perform better than the corsair set linked above? If so, I'll definitely replace the corsair sticks in a month or two after the build. I just don't have the funds to spring for another ram kit right this second.

In2Photos · Sep 5, 2024

Futuremotion said:
Unfortunately I'm outside the return window of my current ram. This is what I bought:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CHSJGCJ2?psc=1

Will the RAM that you just linked me perform better than the corsair set linked above? If so, I'll definitely replace the corsair sticks in a month or two after the build. I just don't have the funds to spring for another ram kit right this second.

The Corsair will probably work fine. You could always manually set it to 6000 CL30. You might even be able to get 6000 CL28 or something. Once you get the PC setup and running fine, turn on XMP at the 6600 speed and see if it's stable. You can then try different combinations to see what works best on your setup.

Markfw · Sep 5, 2024

In2Photos said:
The Corsair will probably work fine. You could always manually set it to 6000 CL30. You might even be able to get 6000 CL28 or something. Once you get the PC setup and running fine, turn on XMP at the 6600 speed and see if it's stable. You can then try different combinations to see what works best on your setup.

Yes, just try to use EXPO, and one want 1T. Not sure what setting will be on your motherboard. I like EXPO since I don't have to mess with all that, just set it to EXPO 6000 and it works.

In2Photos · Sep 5, 2024

Markfw said:
Yes, just try to use EXPO, and one want 1T. Not sure what setting will be on your motherboard. I like EXPO since I don't have to mess with all that, just set it to EXPO 6000 and it works.

XMP kits typically don't have expo profiles though

Hail The Brain Slug · Sep 5, 2024

Futuremotion said:
Unfortunately I'm outside the return window of my current ram. This is what I bought:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CHSJGCJ2?psc=1

Will the RAM that you just linked me perform better than the corsair set linked above? If so, I'll definitely replace the corsair sticks in a month or two after the build. I just don't have the funds to spring for another ram kit right this second.

I think the primary concern is this is an XMP kit rated at a speed beyond turnkey ability on AM5. You have some chance of not being able to enable the profile and have it work at all.

You will almost certainly have to dial in your own settings, voltages, and timings and that may be more effort and time spent than you'd like, especially to ensure it's operating in a stable manner since you are building it for a workstation.

The EXPO 6000C30 kit like Mark linked is a (virtually) guaranteed turnkey stable configuration, since AMD put a lot more effort into getting their EXPO profiles validated as an entire platform than Intel does for XMP.

IEC · Sep 5, 2024

6600 CL32 is likely Hynix A-die or less likely M-die (actual ICs on the memory sticks). If so, it shouldn't be too difficult to do 6000 CL30 or even 6000 CL28. Two DIMMs is the sweet spot on AM5. Four DIMMs is asking for trouble on any DDR5 platform. If you need more than 64GB you want to get 2x48GB like I have or perhaps 2x64GB+, though I have no experience with more than 96GB on AM5. Yet.

If it is M-die, I was able to use similar timings as this reddit post. IIRC you'll have to tweak a few settings differently for A-die:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/15iicia/2x48gb_ddr5_gives_great_performance_on_am5

I use less voltage though. 1.13 vSOC and 1.4V for the RAM itself.

Worst case you load XMP and manually set memory frequency to 6000 with 1:1 divider and leave some performance on the table. IIRC XMP worked on my kit (but defaults to 1:2 mode).

Question Need help choosing a high end CPU for a workstation dedicated to audio production and sound engineering.

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