How likely is this valve repair to turn into a fiasco?

Sukhoi · Sep 5, 2024

My main shutoff valve is stuck open after likely not being activated for 25 years with hard water, and getting a plumber to it will be at least $1K for a replacement. I'd like to put a little more effort into getting it to turn before getting a plumber. Some questions:

Does anyone know if these Mueller valves are 360° or 90°? I can't get it to turn either direction with an adjustable wrench, but it'd be good to know if I should only be trying one direction.
I'm going to go back with some Kroil soaking and a pipe wrench on the valve body for added leverage. Any experience with using Kroil on this type of valve? It's a plug body that uses seated o-rings. Kroil site talks about using on valves and how it's better to use Kroil than heat on o-rings, but I'm still suspicious of long term degradation causing a leak later.

bbhaag · Sep 5, 2024

Those pipes and valve look crusty af....good luck bro on getting that valve to move.

I'm just an arm chair plumber but to me it looks like if you put your adjustable wrench on the left side of the valve and pull it counter clock wise it would move to the closed position.

I have no experience using products like Kroil so I can't help you there. If anything just soke those threads in it to because getting them to move might be a better option than the valve.

Invest in a good set of pipe wrenches if you really want to diy this.

BoomerD · Sep 6, 2024

Buy or borrow a water meter key like this:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/28-in-Solid-Steel-Water-Meter-Valve-Key-with-Grips-410-302-0111/311774568

If it’s crusted solid inside the pipe, leave the water turned on as close to the valve as possible. Just try to work it back and forth, back and forth. Leaving something like a hose bib open MIGHT let any hard water deposits exit from the system.That SHOULD be a 90 degree valve.

Greenman · Sep 6, 2024

The valve is a 90 degree turn, but I'd Call East Bay Mud and tell them their valve has failed. Your plumbing starts after the valve.

herm0016 · Sep 6, 2024

call the utility first, they may just do it for free.

BoomerD · Sep 6, 2024

Greenman said:
The valve is a 90 degree turn, but I'd Call East Bay Mud and tell them their valve has failed. Your plumbing starts after the valve.

Maybe with EBMUD, but every place where I’ve ever lived, the utility owns to the meter, you own after the meter.

balloonshark · Sep 6, 2024

I never heard of Kroil before. I'm familiar with PB B'laster penetrating spray/oil but don't know if it would work in the situation.

Greenman · Sep 6, 2024

BoomerD said:
Maybe with EBMUD, but every place where I’ve ever lived, the utility owns to the meter, you own after the meter.

Yup, and every meter box I've looked in had the valve before the meter.

Sukhoi · Sep 6, 2024

I found the engineering drawing which says the o-rings are EPDM (poor oil resistance), so I'm not going to try any penetrating oil. The valve brochure does seem to confirm it's only 90° with the mention of #7 "integral checks" to limit the 1/4-turn operation.

This isn't EBMUD...it's up in the mountains hence something like $1K to get a plumber. I do own this valve; the utility's valve and meter is outside in a hole. This valve is in a closet on the ground floor.

@BoomerD good idea about keeping water running to flush out any deposits that loosen. I hadn't thought of that.

Any guess if it's CW or CCW to close? Is there a standard? I'll see if their customer service bothers to respond to me.

Greenman · Sep 6, 2024

I assumed the valve was at the house I worked on.
Aren't most quarter turn valves CCW to close? I'm drawing a blank.

Torn Mind · Sep 6, 2024

Acids work on hard water deposits. So for a start, you can clean up the exterior piping with vinegar to deal with the crud.

Normally, I believe that copper-based materials will not seize like steel-based ones, but the key mechanism maybe more fragile. Get pipe wrench that is longer, give it a few quick.

Ultimately, shade tree method of hunting out a socket and then applying an impact might be needed of pipe wrench doesn't work.

Torn Mind · Sep 6, 2024

shutoff wrench - Google Suche

There are shutoff wrenches.

BoomerD · Sep 6, 2024

Greenman said:
I assumed the valve was at the house I worked on.
Aren't most quarter turn valves CCW to close? I'm drawing a blank.

and I thought it was CW to close, CCW to open...like a faucet. I guess there's only one way to find out. (and, no, I'm not going to go dig out my meter box and try it)

Greenman · Sep 7, 2024

Seems like the lock loop was always on the left side when facing the house. It's been a long time since I've had to mess with one.

Sukhoi · Sep 9, 2024

Success! I cleared out the cobwebs, used a mirror to look at the bottom of the valve, and noticed the valve body itself is indented for 90° which makes it clear it's CW to close. Previously I had mostly been trying CCW because it's the most accessible with a wrench, but I had tried CW to no success. This time it moved just a little bit CW on my first try, and then I worked it back and forth. I'm wondering it it loosened up while sitting after my first try a couple weeks ago. It still takes a fair amount of force to close, but it's do-able. I also had a very surprising water spray to the face when I learned it's actually a draining model of valve, and the drain port had just been full of dirt.

How likely is this valve repair to turn into a fiasco?

Sukhoi

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