Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

DisEnchantment · Mar 23, 2022

With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits

History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

The LLVM Project is a collection of modular and reusable compiler and toolchain technologies. - History for llvm/lib/Target/AMDGPU - llvm/llvm-project

github.com

Or Phoronix

More AMD "GFX940" Enablement Work Landing In LLVM - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.

Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

Question - Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now. First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time! Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3...

forums.anandtech.com

SolidQ · Sep 13, 2024

marees said:
AMD working on AI fakery/trickery for Radeon

if it's gonna working on RDNA4, than AMD "scale" can getting market share. Just good AI and RT, also right price

adroc_thurston · Sep 13, 2024

inquiss said:
Will there be, at any point in the next couple of years?

Depends on what you except in terms of volume targets.

SolidQ said:
if it's gonna working on RDNA4

It's for APUs. Or anything with AIE-ML2 really.

blackangus · Sep 13, 2024

SolidQ said:
if it's gonna working on RDNA4, than AMD "scale" can getting market share. Just good AI and RT, also right price

Na...
Because next it will be .. But they dont have....
RTX Game AI
RTX Game AI Pathing
RTX AI Tree creation
RTX AI Leave Falling
RTX AI Bouncing

Mopetar · Sep 13, 2024

blackangus said:
Na...
Because next it will be .. But they dont have....
RTX Game AI
RTX Game AI Pathing
RTX AI Tree creation
RTX AI Leave Falling
RTX AI Bouncing

Don't worry, their AI might be good enough to hallucinate some market share.

Kidding aside, am I the only one that just wants a good raster performance card that I don't need to spend an arm and a leg on?

SolidQ · Sep 13, 2024

Mopetar said:
am I the only one that just wants a good raster performance card that I don't need to spend an arm and a leg on?

me also, but reality, devs move towards only RT need.

RTX Game AI
RTX Game AI Pathing

Funny, but AMD was discussion about it.

adroc_thurston said:
It's for APUs.

in interview, i only see handhelds as example.

Mahboi · Sep 13, 2024

marees · Sep 13, 2024

marees said:
AMD working on AI fakery/trickery for Radeon

https://twitter.com/x/status/1834621601448370332

Amen, to this:
👇

https://twitter.com/x/status/1834694518844592272

adroc_thurston · Sep 13, 2024

SolidQ said:
me also, but reality, devs move towards only RT need.

No?

SolidQ said:
i only see handhelds as example.

That use APUs with GEMM blobs.

Mahboi · Sep 14, 2024

Mopetar said:
Kidding aside, am I the only one that just wants a good raster performance card that I don't need to spend an arm and a leg on?

Bluntly put, yes. Yes you are.
Not going to theorise the detail, but 4K gaming is mostly a wash for now, and will remain for years. You're just better off with 1440p as a solid balance for a long time yet.
Almost any decent card can do 1440p except budget stuff, and even the budget stuff will do it more than well with some upscaling.

Raster is beaten, there is no more "good raster performance" to find, at least not one that people will pay more money for.
Now it's RT and better upscaling that'll build the future. Raster at 1440p is already a slain dragon.

blackangus · Sep 14, 2024

Mopetar said:
Don't worry, their AI might be good enough to hallucinate some market share.

LOL! I think that ready happened!

blackangus · Sep 14, 2024

SolidQ said:
Funny, but AMD was discussion about it.

Yeah both AMD and NVidia discussed the first two, but I was only being funny about the bottom ones. I can totally see AI for in game characters and pathing, that may make sense.

soresu · Sep 14, 2024

Mahboi said:
Raster is beaten, there is no more "good raster performance" to find, at least not one that people will pay more money for.

I wouldn't say beaten, certainly not on the software side at any rate.

I was always amazed over the last 3 decades to find new stuff presented at each SIGGRAPH.

All the 'low hanging fruit' may have been picked away, but there is often still room for optimisation - mesh shaders being a more recent addition that has taken some time to settle into use.

And it's not like raster development suddenly stopped.

Hybrid raster/RT is still in use and will be for some time, interest in improved raster will continue until pure RT/PT hw and sw becomes optimised enough to handle it without detail smear heavy denoising or low frame rates without spatial/temporal upscalers.

Aapje · Sep 14, 2024

Mahboi said:
Not going to theorise the detail, but 4K gaming is mostly a wash for now, and will remain for years. You're just better off with 1440p as a solid balance for a long time yet.

Yeah, with the slow-down in improvements in perf/$, there is no headroom for both a resolution increase and other visual improvements that make rendering cost more at the same resolution, like RT.

Mahboi · Sep 14, 2024

soresu said:
I wouldn't say beaten, certainly not on the software side at any rate.

I was always amazed over the last 3 decades to find new stuff presented at each SIGGRAPH.

All the 'low hanging fruit' may have been picked away, but there is often still room for optimisation - mesh shaders being a more recent addition that has taken some time to settle into use.

Nobody's saying there is no future for Raster, I am saying that the future is an eternally diminishing one. For clients and manufacturers.
You can upgrade raster and RT until 2050, but RT will command increasingly more interest and money and raster less and less. That's all. We've hit the peak of raster circa 2016, since then, it's all about slowly winding down raster improvements/investments and growing RT ones.

Personally I'd argue that as soon as the 6700 XT came out, it was a done deal. 1440p60 for pretty much everything for $350? Yeah, Raster isn't getting much better than that. It'll be 6 or 8 years before those prices happen for 4K, and so more and more effort will go towards RT.
The raster yard is going to see more and more boys visit the milkshake stand at the RT yard.

inquiss · Sep 14, 2024

adroc_thurston said:
No?

That use APUs with GEMM blobs.

If FSR 4 has better quality for APUs, then people are going to want it on their graphics cards. Either than means RDNA5 has GEMM, or CPUs come with GEMM and it uses that, can't be the latter because the memory isn't shared. So just be the former?

beginner99 · Sep 14, 2024

Mahboi said:
People were yapping that Zen 2 wasn't capable, but apparently it'll be capable enough.

I have a zen 2 in my PC, certainly higher clocked. So why would I pay $800 for a PS5pro vs $800 for a 4070 Ti Super?

Ghostsonplanets · Sep 14, 2024

beginner99 said:
I have a zen 2 in my PC, certainly higher clocked. So why would I pay $800 for a PS5pro vs $800 for a 4070 Ti Super?

You're not the public of the PS5 Pro.

PS5 is for those with an stablished library on PS that want higher performance without needing to crossover to PC market.

Mahboi · Sep 14, 2024

beginner99 said:
I have a zen 2 in my PC, certainly higher clocked. So why would I pay $800 for a PS5pro vs $800 for a 4070 Ti Super?

The "sit on your couch, wiggle a controller, get gaming on TV" experience is what people want from consoles. PC doesn't offer that, not in the same way.

GodisanAtheist · Sep 14, 2024

Mahboi said:
The "sit on your couch, wiggle a controller, get gaming on TV" experience is what people want from consoles. PC doesn't offer that, not in the same way.

-made a steam box that launches into big picture mode for the kids on the spare TV, basically a console made out of leftover parts from my old PC.

Never have to leave Steam/use a kb+M for virtually all games made within the last 10 years.

But I'm just being difficult I understand your meaning.

Mahboi · Sep 14, 2024

GodisanAtheist said:
-made a steam box that launches into big picture mode for the kids on the spare TV, basically a console made out of leftover parts from my old PC.

Never have to leave Steam/use a kb+M for virtually all games made within the last 10 years.

But I'm just being difficult I understand your meaning.

Funnily enough I said the exact same thing on Twitter to Godot Engine devs the other day, that IMO the "better cost/value console" may disappear in favour of a good Steam Deck 2 box that just drives your TV as a console/Netflix/general PC services box, but runs off a controller and boots to a game-ified OS format. Then consoles will either be higher tier perf (so Pro models), either be mostly about special controllers, VR headsets, etc.
But I agree that it is a slow death of consoles right now. We're not talking about it much but the disappearance of exclusives is a telltale sign. They HAVE to sell on PC too or they don't recoup the losses. MS Game Pass has failed too.
Might run for a PS6's length too, but I wouldn't be shocked if we reach a sort of "look, x86 is the arch, PC is the box, everyone's just using the same IP, just focus on the games having exceptional experiences and make special controllers or experiences, but it's all going to run on PC HW".
Consoles are in big part about giving that game feel all the way to the OS, get that going and you've done 70% of the job. That's why Valve sells tons and the competitors still tryhard with RDNA 3/RDNA 3.5/ARC and yet do not even come close to Gaben's sales. That Arch Linux/SteamOS is doing great.

del42sa · Sep 15, 2024

CEO Lisa Su says AMD is now a data center-first company — DC is now 4X larger than its gaming sales

at least they can change their meme to. "AMD we love(d) gaming"

SolidQ · Sep 15, 2024

inquiss said:
If FSR 4 has better quality for APUs, then people are going to want it on their graphics cards.

modders will fix fast, and it's gonna run on RDNA3+, if it have DLL file.
Even CyberFSR better, than native FSR

Tup3x · Sep 15, 2024

del42sa said:
CEO Lisa Su says AMD is now a data center-first company — DC is now 4X larger than its gaming sales

at least they can change their meme to. "AMD we love(d) gaming"

There's this too:

AMD’s laptop OEMs decry poor support, chip supply, and communication — OEM complains the company has "left billions of US dollars lying around" due to poor execution: Reports

"Partners cited miscommunication, unfulfilled promises, and generally poor treatment, reminiscent of Intel’s behavior during its dominant years." - AC Analysis

www.tomshardware.com

Judging by how things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if that was actually more or less the case. I'm not really sure if their priorities are right or at very least it looks like they can only concentrate on one thing properly at the moment. They can't seem to use their current position fully, especially on laptops.

misuspita · Sep 15, 2024

They were fleeced by OEMs for many years with lower quality components, designs, maybe this is a small payback, who knows?

marees · Sep 15, 2024

misuspita said:
They were fleeced by OEMs for many years with lower quality components, designs, maybe this is a small payback, who knows?

It is as simple as not maintaining excess inventory but asking OEM to order. The partner initially orders a small quantity when sales pick up they ask more but AMD can't meet the revised projections

Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

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