Discussion Will the PS5 pro have the performance of 4070 or 4070 super ?

marees

Senior member
Apr 28, 2024
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Usecase for the pro:

the PS5 is like pairing a zen 2 CPU with 4070 / 4070 super in gpu bound gaming scenarios
  1. Large monitor
  2. 40 fps
  3. 4K with DLSS
  4. RT enabled

Which GPU can do this ?

My understanding, in raster:

7700xt = 4070
Ps5 pro = ???
7800xt = 4070 super

In RT
N48xtx = 4070 ti
N48 xt = 4070 super
Ps5 pro = ???
N48 xl = 4070
N44 = 4060 ti

Plus both Nv & PS5 pro have AI upscaling but RDNA 4 will not have

One huge caveat could be that the pro is on 6nm. That will be a huge bummer if that is the case
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
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At the 2:10 mark Digital Foundry says RTX 3070 Ti, though I guess the thumbnail gives it away lol. Yeah no $810 for RTX 3070 Ti performance no thanks.

 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
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Play the ball not the man

His arguments are sound.
The fr0M s0meOn3 WH0 acTuAlLy kn0Wz waT tHEiR talK1ng abOuT line is a bit ridiculous. I like his videos, I like his testing but dude is not any kind of expert on hardware AFAIK.
 
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marees

Senior member
Apr 28, 2024
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Some calculations:

On the other hand, the PS5 Pro is about 5% behind the RX 7700 XT in FP32 performance and about 33% superior in memory bandwidth . At this level, it will be able to show at least 10% better performance than the RX 7700 XT. It can be seen as roughly between the RX 7700 XT and RX 7800 XT, and the GeForce RTX 4070 fits perfectly in this performance range. In other words, in terms of raw performance, the PS5 Pro's GPU performance seems to be on par with the RTX 4070.

 

Majcric

Golden Member
May 3, 2011
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IIRC correctly, the PS5 started out with performance Equalivant to a 2060 super/2070 with testing done by digital foundry. In some of their more recent findings with newer titles they needed a 3060 to get PS5 performance. (can't be for certain this was a 1:1 though) I'm wondering if the PS5 pro will eventually do something similar or the CPU bottleneck will be too much.
 
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SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
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IIRC correctly, the PS5 started out with performance Equalivant to a 2060 super/2070 with testing done by digital foundry. In some of their more recent findings with newer titles they needed a 3060 to get PS5 performance. (can't be for certain this was a 1:1 though) I'm wondering if the PS5 pro will eventually do something similar or the CPU bottleneck will be too much.
I think their 3070 Ti prediction was just them taking Cerny's 45% claim at face value and finding the gpu closest to that number above the 6700 non XT and with much better RT than the 6700 non XT.
 

MoragaBlue

Senior member
Jul 17, 2022
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So, right now, on NewEgg, you can pick up a 4070 with a rebate for $600 before tax. Yeah, no way anyone can build a PC for a similar price, but the gap is certainly narrowing. It's still a deal, but not the very good deals prior consoles had represented.
 
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marees

Senior member
Apr 28, 2024
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So, right now, on NewEgg, you can pick up a 4070 with a rebate for $600 before tax. Yeah, no way anyone can build a PC for a similar price, but the gap is certainly narrowing. It's still a deal, but not the very good deals prior consoles had represented.
4070 or equivalent should be $400 same time next year

My main problem is for the $800+ price this is effectively a 40fps machine due to zen 2 cpu from PS5
 
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Majcric

Golden Member
May 3, 2011
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Console manufacturers taking a page at of the ole GPU playbook and testing the waters to see what gamers are willing to pay. I enjoy new hardware as much as the next guy but at $800 this thing needs to fail as this will only open the door for an equally expensive PS6, maybe even more.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
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4070 or equivalent should be $400 same time next year

My main problem is for the $800+ price this is effectively a 40fps machine due to zen 2 cpu from PS5
And the 40 fps mode requires an expensive 4k 120Hz HDMI 2.1 TV. If they were going to start approaching gaming PC prices they should have put a gaming PC level cpu, say Ryzen 5 5600 or better instead of this lesser than Ryzen 5 3600 cpu in it now.
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
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So, right now, on NewEgg, you can pick up a 4070 with a rebate for $600 before tax. Yeah, no way anyone can build a PC for a similar price, but the gap is certainly narrowing. It's still a deal, but not the very good deals prior consoles had represented.
Nah, 4070 base is $550. 4070 super is $600. You can build PC with a 4070 for ~$1k. At this price I don't think it would be worth it, just spend the extra $300-$400 for the PC and have something you can use for more than just entertainment.
 

MoragaBlue

Senior member
Jul 17, 2022
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Nah, 4070 base is $550. 4070 super is $600. You can build PC with a 4070 for ~$1k. At this price I don't think it would be worth it, just spend the extra $300-$400 for the PC and have something you can use for more than just entertainment.

If I were starting out, I'd most certainly build a PC. However, I can see where some may, say, get a Macbook Air ($800) now and a console for games. At this point, I'm not sure it isn't better just to get the base PS5.
 

marees

Senior member
Apr 28, 2024
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PS5 pro can upscale from 847p to 4K 🤔

The paradigm has been shifting for a long time now from quantity of pixels to quality of pixels and in bringing machine learning-based upscaling to consoles for the first time, PSSR allows developers to spend more system resources on how good a game can look as opposed to how high the resolution is. Now, don't get me wrong, upscaling quality does tend to improve the higher the base resolution - but it's down to developers now to choose the best balance for their games. Should they go for a 1080p presentation richer in detail, or a higher resolution 1440p alternative? Developers will need to make that call - but ultimately, it's all about the quality of the final presentation. The flexibility of machine learning-based upscaling means that 'how good the game looks' takes precedence over 'how high the pixel count is'.

Just to be clear then: if a game runs at a 'low' resolution on PS5, and an equally 'low' resolution on PS5 Pro, they are not the same thing. Improved upscaling makes a difference, but bearing in mind the extra horsepower of the Pro, we can imagine that the developers are doing more with those pixels. The extent to which this is going to be successful is ultimately down to a more subjective assessment of the presentation for each title


 

Oyeve

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Oct 18, 1999
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I am quite happy with my current PS5. I won't be upgrading to PS5 Pro. I will wait until I see what the next generation will be. Hopefully a few years.
 
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marees

Senior member
Apr 28, 2024
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The early verdict is in:

  1. PS5 pro is good & Sony delivers on its promise (almost)
  2. PSSR delivers quality mode visuals (almost) with performance mode fps (slightly better. The pro locks better to 60 fps)
  3. PSSR works its magic. But very slightly behind DLSS/XeSS ( in temporal stability)

if you've been waiting to play Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth, it may be worth waiting a couple months longer, because PS5 Pro seems like the best place to play the Square-Enix epic by a long shot.

https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfo...vers-huge-image-quality-improvements-at-60fps

Pro vs Quality mode:
the biggest issue here is that the PS5 Pro just isn't that temporally stable relative to the base machine in its graphics mode. In shots without a lot of camera movement, it's fairly easy to find quite a bit of breakup in the image, at least relative to the graphics mode. The image stability overall is more similar to the old performance mode. I don't think this is anything like a dealbreaker here, but the general instability of the image is the biggest sticking point if you are measuring it up against its full-res PS5 counterpart. Here, solutions like DLSS and XeSS typically deliver more temporally stable results. The brief snippets of Ratchet and Clank that we have appear to exhibit a similar problem, suggesting this may be a characteristic weakness of the current version of PSSR.

Overall, I think image quality is similarly good between the two consoles when comparing base PS5 quality mode to the 60fps Pro footage we have, although they can also look fairly different in some areas. The Pro definitely gives you greater image detail, but it comes at the cost of more temporal instability

Pro vs Performance mode:
The intro cutscene shows off the impressive fidelity the PS5 Pro is capable of, delivering a crisp, sharp 4K image - a far cry from the blurry and imprecise 1080p-like rendering featured on the base console at the same 60fps update.

FF7 Rebirth packs a lot of geometry into every frame, boasting primitive shader-powered polygonal detail, and the PS5 Pro simply handles this much better than the base console. Ghosting on camera movement is much harder to spot on the Pro as well. Combat frustrates the base machine a little, with blurry particle effects and poor image clarity producing a muddy look. PS5 Pro handles this scene impressively - much better than I was expecting - resolving crisp 4K-like detail even in relatively fast combat scenes. The motion blur looks quite pristine and is relatively artifact free. Particle effects look generally good in motion, though some freeze-frames reveal a slight chunkiness relative to the rest of the presentation.

The base resolution is very similar to the resolution range of the base game, which hit comparable resolution figures in its performance mode. However, the base console didn't use any form of temporal upsampling, instead taking that final rendered image and simply upscaling it, perhaps using a bilinear or bicubic upscaling solution. The game's final resolve also appeared oddly soft, lacking detail relative to some other games with similar resolutions. Square-Enix also offered a 'performance-sharp' mode, which used a different upscaling method that produced sharper results, albeit with additional blockiness. Preferences here are a matter of personal taste, but neither option offered the kind of image clarity that most other 60fps games on consoles are capable of delivering.


At least from this DF video, Rebirth on the Pro is basically on par with Graphics Mode except you get 60 fps. There's that I guess.
 

marees

Senior member
Apr 28, 2024
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PS5 Pro: Developers share how they’re using new tech to enhance their games​

Details on the growing list of titles taking advantage of the console’s larger GPU, advanced raytracing, and AI-driven upscaling

Depending on the game, and the team, PS5 Pro’s hardware can be used to enhance games in a variety of ways.* Here’s what 14 developers have to say about their titles running on PS5 Pro:

 

marees

Senior member
Apr 28, 2024
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this is akin to a big graphics card upgrade for a gaming PC - you can suddenly enable new features that you couldn't before, and you also enjoy a general uptick in performance that makes your existing games more fun to play.

This goes double if you primarily played your PS5 games in performance mode when given the option, as you're keeping the same 60fps update rate in most cases but image quality takes a gigantic step forward - and you may get some new ray tracing features in the bargain.


 

MoragaBlue

Senior member
Jul 17, 2022
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Marees - Many thanks!

The information you posted have been very helpful. The compare & contrast for F1 24 (a game I would totally get engrossed in--one of the few non-action fighting genres I enjoy) look amazing on the side of the Pro. While with GT7, I see your point about the slight visual artifacts.

Still on the fence on the vanilla Pro (will definitely try to secure the 30th Ann), but there is some value here.

PS - Also, FF, the newest one, looks amazingly better on the Pro, though I've never actually played an FF game, and not sure if I'd like it.
 
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marees

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