Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	12 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	12 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

jdubs03 · Tuesday at 1:28 PM

naukkis said:
Intel is about to go out of business because their fab has failed to execute time after time. If you were head of Intel do you still make important products to not yet production ready internal process without making back-up plan - dual source your products? I think that now every Intel product is dual sourced and tsmc version will be released on time if internal fab fails - which is more than likely.

Geez that’s a lot of gloom and doom. Sounds like the BoD meeting yielded some positive steps, and the Amazon deal helps a bit too. The $3.5 billion DoD Secure Enclave is providing funding to the fab side. They’re still awaiting the $8.5 billion tranche from the CHIPs act.
I think about to go out of business is a bit much.

511 · Tuesday at 1:30 PM

9949asd said:
Just wait till intel to announce🤪they just did changed the ARL u5 u3 from 20a to full n3b.

Such changes doens't happen overnight they outsourced cause they had design ready bet AMD will be trouble with CLW they won't have Node advantage and Chadmont is not weak

naukkis · Tuesday at 1:40 PM

jdubs03 said:
Geez that’s a lot of gloom and doom. Sounds like the BoD meeting yielded some positive steps, and the Amazon deal helps a bit too. The $3.5 billion DoD Secure Enclave is providing funding to the fab side. They’re still awaiting the $8.5 billion tranche from the CHIPs act.
I think about to go out of business is a bit much.

Money ain't have been problem in past failures. Intel is out of server business if their fab fails again. They switch their client business to tsmc and server side can make same switch - but only if decision to start backup plan is made early enough. After their fab fails is way too late to change plans - Intel is crazy if they have bet everything on one card without backup plans as they have already have bought needed capacity from tsmc.

511 · Tuesday at 1:59 PM

naukkis said:
Money ain't have been problem in past failures. Intel is out of server business if their fab fails again. They switch their client business to tsmc and server side can make same switch - but only if decision to start backup plan is made early enough. After their fab fails is way too late to change plans - Intel is crazy if they have bet everything on one card without backup plans as they have already have bought needed capacity from tsmc.

Thier Fab failure means US will loose leading edge chip manufacturing which is a tall order imo anyway their fabs have been awesome pre 10nm they invented half the stuff TSMC copied hell TSMC N3 Uses a feature intel used in 22nm node lol they just need to get back on track and Design should have back-up in form of TSMC
The feature is SAC

desrever · Tuesday at 2:53 PM

511 said:
We have reach a stage where official info is not official according to some people bruh you can't lie on such a large scale for Intel 18A They have been selling it to investor as their lead product stop spreading lies on things that are confirmed

They lied about 20A and ARL, why would anyone trust Intel.

cannedlake240 · Tuesday at 3:13 PM

You lied about your density, you lied about them PDKs

9949asd · Tuesday at 3:43 PM

desrever said:
They lied about 20A and ARL, why would anyone trust Intel.

Can’t call it lied. Just change plans, and it’s changed to a correct direction.

desrever · Tuesday at 3:44 PM

9949asd said:
Can’t call it lied. Just change plans, and it’s changed to a correct direction.

They kept saying everything was on track until the last minute, obviously they lied.

Who is to say anything out of Intel's slide wouldn't get changed at any time since they mean nothing?

jdubs03 · Tuesday at 3:44 PM

desrever said:
They lied about 20A and ARL, why would anyone trust Intel.

I think it’s more more like a “trust but verify” situation. They can’t afford execution delays any longer, so one would hope they’re staying grounded.

The jury is still out on 18A.

cannedlake240 · Tuesday at 3:56 PM

511 said:
where official info is not official

No, you don't get it what Intel will just sell N3 wafers as 18A, theres no way they could launch a product, it's against the fundamental law \s

mikk · Tuesday at 4:00 PM

desrever said:
They kept saying everything was on track until the last minute, obviously they lied.

Who is to say anything out of Intel's slide wouldn't get changed at any time since they mean nothing?

No this is false, they simply ignored talking about 20A for months. It was on track maybe a year ago or something like that. It's not like they claimed on track shortly before they cancelled it you are implying.

OneEng2 · Tuesday at 4:00 PM

cannedlake240 said:
No, you don't get it what Intel will just sell N3 wafers as 18A, theres no way they could launch a product, it's against the fundamental law \s

I don't know for a fact, but my guess is these advanced processor designs at Intel are betting on the transistor density and power efficiency of 18A in order to have a viable product offering.

I suspect that it is not possible for the design to exist on N3X..... so I agree with others ..... Intel has a whole lot riding on 18A.

cebri1 · Tuesday at 4:08 PM

20A was a derisking node, the same as Intel 4. The only difference being that Intel 4 has to be used for HVM of MTL. If not it would have gone already too.

Magio · Tuesday at 4:33 PM

20A was by far the sanest cut to make for Intel. There were already almost no products slated to use it besides a few (likely low volume) ARL SKUs and it was certainly not slated to be offered to foundry customers. If they had infinite cash and infinite trust from investors then sure, go ahead with that to beta test GAAFETs and BSPD ahead of 18A HVM, but if you don't then reallocating those resources directly towards 18A is the only logical choice.

The Hardcard · Tuesday at 4:44 PM

desrever said:
They kept saying everything was on track until the last minute, obviously they lied.

Who is to say anything out of Intel's slide wouldn't get changed at any time since they mean nothing?

That doesn’t mean they lied. “Every Thing Was On Track Until I Realized I Didn’t Have The Money” would work as the title of my autobiography or the summary of the contents.

Markfw · Tuesday at 4:47 PM

The Hardcard said:
That doesn’t mean they lied. “Every Thing Was On Track Until I Realized I Didn’t Have The Money” would work as the title of my autobiography or the summary of the contents.

Except one thing. When was the last time Intel told the truth ?

9949asd · Tuesday at 5:23 PM

Markfw said:
Except one thing. When was the last time Intel told the truth ?

They actually do a good things to customers. Who wants to use their disadvanced node and experience 400w cpu🤣
No one want to pay for their fab, only want a good cpu.

Markfw · Tuesday at 5:29 PM

9949asd said:
They actually do a good things to customers. Who wants to use their disadvanced node and experience 400w cpu🤣
No one want to pay for their fab, only want a good cpu.

When was the last time they did something good for customers ?

cebri1 · Tuesday at 5:49 PM

9949asd said:
They actually do a good things to customers. Who wants to use their disadvanced node and experience 400w cpu🤣
No one want to pay for their fab, only want a good cpu.

this forum really went down the drain.

IEC · Tuesday at 5:50 PM

Vendor threads are considered safe spaces for owners and admirers of that vendors products. Anti vendor posts, and posts that are pro competitor of the vendor are not allowed. Because it amounts to flame bait.

Philste · 2024-09-18T01:05:44-0400

Looks like ARL will launch in 6 days anyway, the old Intel Innovation Slot.

cebri1 · 2024-09-18T01:22:35-0400

Philste said:
Looks like ARL will launch in 6 days anyway, the old Intel Innovation Slot.

This is probably about Xeon 6

511 · 2024-09-18T01:24:33-0400

cebri1 said:
This is probably about Xeon 6

I think they will launch both in September but will set review/availablity in October Xeon 6 6900P will be launching alongside ARL cost cutting 🤣

511 · 2024-09-18T01:39:17-0400

https://twitter.com/x/status/1836267219032187387

Philste · 2024-09-18T01:46:19-0400

cebri1 said:
This is probably about Xeon 6

Not sure...
Is "superior per core performance" something you would claim for a 128 core CPU? Sounds more like an Argument for Desktop CPUs to me.

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