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_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
3,942
69
91
Maybe a backmarker will crash out Max or something but other than that, I don't see any opportunity for him to not finish a race with the way reliability is these days for the top teams.
Well, Australia showed you that especially the top teams don't have that fabled reliability these days

Also, even a week later, that Alonso penalty is still triggering me.
Getting a penalty for slowing down slightly, losing time, and just generally making a .5 second losing move, to maybe recharge the battery more for the next defense, having a better exit out of the turn, and maybe forcing Russell into an awkward position in the corner.
Since when can we not expect from a racing driver that they react to slight changes in their competitors behavior? 40kp/h is not a "crazy closing rate" like some proponents of the penalty appear to assume - even less so at the speed they are going.
Yes, being .7 seconds apart might make this a bit more tricky - but the slow-down was over a hundred meters, where Russell would in any case be expecting to catch up.
Crashing in that situation looks like you regular rookie mistake to me, of which Russell has been making too many.

I do hope another set of stewards has a look at it. In Djeddah '21 Max only got penalized because he significantly hit the brakes (and I would still blame Hamilton for not just driving by a slowing competitor, or at least playing DRS chicken side-by-side).

I also wonder whether the penalties in general will be reworked. I like having more severe penalties available more frequently, but I also feel that less catastrophic penalties need to be available for those situations when a black and white flag is too little, but a ten seconds penalty too much. Of course, the more granular it becomes, the more we will complain about specific penalties
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,110
136
Grand Prix of Miami results:

POSNODRIVERCARLAPSTIME/RETIREDPTS
14Lando NorrisMCLAREN MERCEDES571:30:49.87625
21Max VerstappenRED BULL RACING HONDA RBPT57+7.612s18
316Charles LeclercFERRARI57+9.920s15
411Sergio PerezRED BULL RACING HONDA RBPT57+14.650s12
555Carlos SainzFERRARI57+16.407s10
644Lewis HamiltonMERCEDES57+16.585s8
722Yuki TsunodaRB HONDA RBPT57+26.185s6
863George RussellMERCEDES57+34.789s4
914Fernando AlonsoASTON MARTIN ARAMCO MERCEDES57+37.107s2
1031Esteban OconALPINE RENAULT57+39.746s1
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,110
136
Finally and interesting Race!!! Safety car really helped Norris, as he was able to pit after the other top contenders did. He gained time by pitting under the safety car (obvs). It will be interesting to see how well RB responds in the next race - seems they really had setup problems in this race. And, we will see how the new upgrades to McLaren work going forward.

ML should be in a good place for 2026, seems they have the driver, leadership and engineering talent necessary and will be using Honda engines by then.
 

_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
3,942
69
91
Well, the pacing of the Imola race sure was good! Overall it wasn't super exciting, but ultimately worked out well.
 
Reactions: Ajay

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,110
136
Grand Prix of Italy:

POSNODRIVERCARLAPSTIME/RETIREDPTS
11Max VerstappenRED BULL RACING HONDA RBPT631:25:25.25225
24Lando NorrisMCLAREN MERCEDES63+0.725s18
316Charles LeclercFERRARI63+7.916s15
481Oscar PiastriMCLAREN MERCEDES63+14.132s12
555Carlos SainzFERRARI63+22.325s10
644Lewis HamiltonMERCEDES63+35.104s8
763George RussellMERCEDES63+47.154s7
811Sergio PerezRED BULL RACING HONDA RBPT63+54.776s4
918Lance StrollASTON MARTIN ARAMCO MERCEDES63+79.556s2
1022Yuki TsunodaRB HONDA RBPT62+1 lap1


If only there had been a few more laps - it would have been very exciting! Of course, it would be better to see the top 5 finishing within 5 seconds and some lead changes - but the second half of this race (after the switch to hards) was very fun!
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,297
30,317
146
Well you guys can thank me for Lando's win and McLaren's resurgence these last two weeks: I cancelled my F1 subscription ahead of May because I didn't want to pay 90 bucks to watch Verstappen win all the races that his car remains on track for the rest of the season.

So then Miami...but at least I could watch that one because it was on US TV. ...and that was a legit win, too. RB had issues that day. Immola looked fun, too. dang!
 
Reactions: Ajay and Meghan54

_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
3,942
69
91
Well you guys can thank me for Lando's win and McLaren's resurgence these last two weeks: I cancelled my F1 subscription ahead of May because I didn't want to pay 90 bucks to watch Verstappen win all the races that his car remains on track for the rest of the season.

So then Miami...but at least I could watch that one because it was on US TV. ...and that was a legit win, too. RB had issues that day. Immola looked fun, too. dang!
Thanks for the same-time pole then as well
Hope you're getting Montréal on TV at least - looks like it's going to be a cooking race!
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,297
30,317
146
goddamn! now I'm missing everything! maybe I will re-up in a week or two.

On vacation now, so couldn't really watch as it is. (well, no espn where I am right now. curses!)
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,110
136
Awesome Race!!! Finally 3 different Lead drivers. Even though I'm an RB fan, I'd much rather watch races like this were even RB can lose (but not this time with mistakes and a well timed safety car).

Results for Grand Prix of Canada:

POSNODRIVERCARLAPSTIME/RETIREDPTS
11Max VerstappenRED BULL RACING HONDA RBPT701:45:47.92725
24Lando NorrisMCLAREN MERCEDES70+3.879s18
363George RussellMERCEDES70+4.317s15
444Lewis HamiltonMERCEDES70+4.915s13
581Oscar PiastriMCLAREN MERCEDES70+10.199s10
614Fernando AlonsoASTON MARTIN ARAMCO MERCEDES70+17.510s8
718Lance StrollASTON MARTIN ARAMCO MERCEDES70+23.625s6
83Daniel RicciardoRB HONDA RBPT70+28.672s4
910Pierre GaslyALPINE RENAULT70+30.021s2
1031Esteban OconALPINE RENAULT70+30.313s1
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,110
136
Geez. I didn't even post Monaco results. Of course, it's almost game over after qualifying in that Race.
 

_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
3,942
69
91
Man, Checo's streak is dark.
And so is Charles'.

Mercedes being that fast across dry conditions was surprising, and McLaren's strategy was such a mess.
Ultimately the elite teams still somehow shine, when the going gets tough.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,541
918
126
I am loving this season. McLaren look like contenders! Hope they don’t regret swapping Norris and Piastri for the lead a few races back at the end of the season.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,297
30,317
146
I am loving this season. McLaren look like contenders! Hope they don’t regret swapping Norris and Piastri for the lead a few races back at the end of the season.

Lando would have had 2 or 3 more wins if it weren't for race decisions from the team totally fucking him (his own, as well IIRC). But yeah, the season has gotten fantastic. His car looks more like Red Bull from last year than Red Bull does.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
12,185
3,108
136
I don't follow F1, but WTF happened?? Max calls his car "undrivable" and suggests he won't even win the driver's championship. 🤯

 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,297
30,317
146
I don't follow F1, but WTF happened?? Max calls his car "undrivable" and suggests he won't even win the driver's championship. 🤯


McLaren, Mercedes, and Ferrari to some degree have caught up with them. McLaren seems way way way ahead of everyone, as they seem to just work really well on all tracks now. The start between Norris and Piastri today was...ill-advised as they shouldn't have been fighting on the first lap, which let LeClerc slip through, and they couldn't really recover from that because Ferrari seems to have built perfect upgrades for Monza. I'm not sure anyone expects them to be winning most races going forward, but McLaren is really the team to beat.

I like that they want their drivers to race, but they really do need to think about the Championship properly because Norris is their only driver with a shot to win. I wish they would just stop being stupid. They are pretty much a lock for the Constructors, though, as they not only have the better cars, but a better team of drivers right now as Perez just doesn't have it, the last 2 years, really.

RBR has just looked lost the last two weeks. Max came in 2nd at his home circuit....but it was a 22s gap where he really only had the advantage of being in front of the other guys.

Something has happened with either their setups or the upgrades they brought in near the end of the first half, where the car just doesn't turn, according to Max. I think this was very obvious at Zandvoort, just losing 10ths on every lap with oversteer.]

It's gonna be really close, though, for Norris to win he needs a lot of help from the other teams to put themselves between him and Max in the points--and McLaren to just not be stupid about letting Piastri come in ahead, especially if he's not in a place to win, like today. I think the gap is like 64 points right now, and Norris can't really afford to keep chiseling off 5 or 8 points per race.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
12,185
3,108
136
McLaren, Mercedes, and Ferrari to some degree have caught up with them. McLaren seems way way way ahead of everyone, as they seem to just work really well on all tracks now. The start between Norris and Piastri today was...ill-advised as they shouldn't have been fighting on the first lap, which let LeClerc slip through, and they couldn't really recover from that because Ferrari seems to have built perfect upgrades for Monza. I'm not sure anyone expects them to be winning most races going forward, but McLaren is really the team to beat.

I like that they want their drivers to race, but they really do need to think about the Championship properly because Norris is their only driver with a shot to win. I wish they would just stop being stupid. They are pretty much a lock for the Constructors, though, as they not only have the better cars, but a better team of drivers right now as Perez just doesn't have it, the last 2 years, really.

RBR has just looked lost the last two weeks. Max came in 2nd at his home circuit....but it was a 22s gap where he really only had the advantage of being in front of the other guys.

Something has happened with either their setups or the upgrades they brought in near the end of the first half, where the car just doesn't turn, according to Max. I think this was very obvious at Zandvoort, just losing 10ths on every lap with oversteer.]

It's gonna be really close, though, for Norris to win he needs a lot of help from the other teams to put themselves between him and Max in the points--and McLaren to just not be stupid about letting Piastri come in ahead, especially if he's not in a place to win, like today. I think the gap is like 64 points right now, and Norris can't really afford to keep chiseling off 5 or 8 points per race.
Thanks! I can kinda get how the other 3 teams figured things out to "catch up."

But logically it's just baffling to me that arguably the most dominant car advantage over 1.2 seasons somehow was tweaked into a "monster."

I'm not a racing guy, but it's like if the Kansas City Chiefs tomorrow decided to call run plays 50 times a game to lighten the load on their QB.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,297
30,317
146
Thanks! I can kinda get how the other 3 teams figured things out to "catch up."

But logically it's just baffling to me that arguably the most dominant car advantage over 1.2 seasons somehow was tweaked into a "monster."

I'm not a racing guy, but it's like if the Kansas City Chiefs tomorrow decided to call run plays 50 times a game to lighten the load on their QB.

Yeah it does seem a bit more than just the other teams getting ahead of them, because there are more complaints from the drivers.

However, the drivers always complain a lot, especially during the races. Max probably complains more than anyone, but I guess he has expectations. Complaining publicly and off the track about the situation seems a bit more real. Also, they are losing Newey, soon, likely to Aston Martin, and there does seem to be a bit of personnel drama on the team, with ownership, Horner, and the drivers, so it could be enough people are just too distracted to see what all is going on.
 

_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
3,942
69
91
Unlucky for Lando, to get caught out in qualy - but once again Perez showing how he just does not deserve that seat.
Not only throwing away a potential second place in the battle for the constructors, but also giving Lando 3 more points over Max.
With four DRS zones, I wonder how Singapore will go. Not one of my favourite tracks, as it's more a test of endurance rather than outright speed or skill.

Also, I wonder whether Piastri ends up with second in the championship, his gap to Lando is smaller, than Lando's to Max. He's certainly building the momentum.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,297
30,317
146
Unlucky for Lando, to get caught out in qualy - but once again Perez showing how he just does not deserve that seat.
Not only throwing away a potential second place in the battle for the constructors, but also giving Lando 3 more points over Max.
With four DRS zones, I wonder how Singapore will go. Not one of my favourite tracks, as it's more a test of endurance rather than outright speed or skill.

Also, I wonder whether Piastri ends up with second in the championship, his gap to Lando is smaller, than Lando's to Max. He's certainly building the momentum.

I haven't really followed up after the race, but during and with the replays, it looked to me like Sainz was at fault on the crash, but Perez definitely didn't need to be risking it like that. It was nuts.
But I mean, the point differential between Max and Lando didn't change with Perez crashing--they were already going to finish with the same spread. It's only the spot in constructor's (and his seat, probably) that he killed with that.


What McLaren is doing right now is just nuts to me. Lando should have had what, 3 wins earlier in the season if not for bad strategy from the team, and now Oscar is surging.

Lando just makes...so many mistakes with bad launches and some of his own decisions on the track, and he also just seems to accept it. He's also had such shit luck (this last qualifying, as you said). I'm pulling for the dude, but like you I wouldn't be surprised if Piastra does surpass him by the end.

But I do feel like from here on out, in a 1-2 situation, they are still going to put Lando in for the win. They absolutely have to. More races like Baku, though, and it doesn't matter. Lando just has to open races better, and also get himself into position to open races.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,541
918
126
I haven't really followed up after the race, but during and with the replays, it looked to me like Sainz was at fault on the crash, but Perez definitely didn't need to be risking it like that. It was nuts.
But I mean, the point differential between Max and Lando didn't change with Perez crashing--they were already going to finish with the same spread. It's only the spot in constructor's (and his seat, probably) that he killed with that.


What McLaren is doing right now is just nuts to me. Lando should have had what, 3 wins earlier in the season if not for bad strategy from the team, and now Oscar is surging.

Lando just makes...so many mistakes with bad launches and some of his own decisions on the track, and he also just seems to accept it. He's also had such shit luck (this last qualifying, as you said). I'm pulling for the dude, but like you I wouldn't be surprised if Piastra does surpass him by the end.

But I do feel like from here on out, in a 1-2 situation, they are still going to put Lando in for the win. They absolutely have to. More races like Baku, though, and it doesn't matter. Lando just has to open races better, and also get himself into position to open races.

Sainz was absolutely not at fault. Yes, he was moving across to the middle of the track but he made no sudden moves and Perez was behind and had plenty of room to avoid the collision but he didn’t. I blame it squarely on Perez.
 
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