Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	12 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	12 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

SiliconFly · Monday at 3:14 PM

FlameTail said:
Relatively speaking, it's a low volume part. It will be less volume than ARL.

Also, all those LNL design wins are in the $1000< laptop segment, which is much lower volume than the $1000> laptop segment.

I'm pretty sure they'll sell more Lunar Lake Laptops that MacBooks in the rest of the world (I mean, except US).

9949asd · Monday at 4:11 PM

245k stock

jdubs03 · Monday at 4:19 PM

9949asd said:
245k stock
View attachment 108091

Hm. Yeah, clearly the focus for this generation is on efficiency. Only 4% higher is certainly under performance related to expectations.

9949asd · Monday at 4:24 PM

jdubs03 said:
Hm. Yeah, clearly the focus for this generation is on efficiency. Only 4% higher is certainly under performance related to expectations.
View attachment 108092

It’s only all core at 5.0 4.6

Josh128 · Monday at 4:34 PM

9949asd said:
245k stock
View attachment 108091

6+8 losing to 12 core Zen 5 by ~6K points?! Im not sure I believe this unless its severely underclocked for efficiency purposes in stock form? If true, per core napkin math puts 285K at ~44.3K. I guess I can believe that but it was supposed to be 47K+ just as of this morning, lol.

9949asd · Monday at 4:34 PM

9949asd said:
It’s only all core at 5.0 4.6

And base on this, 285k 8+16 will be sure around 45k.
And 245k run r23 only 110w-120w.

9949asd · Monday at 4:52 PM

Josh128 said:
6+8 losing to 12 core Zen 5 by ~6K points?! Im not sure I believe this unless its severely underclocked for efficiency purposes in stock form? If true, per core napkin math puts 285K at ~44.3K. I guess I can believe that but it was supposed to be 47K+ just as of this morning, lol.

47k Is totally wrong, that guy is pro A, he just want to spread rumors about gaming performance is bad.

DavidC1 · Monday at 5:27 PM

igor_kavinski said:
Wait. Let me see. Skylake. Kaby Lake. Coffee Lake. Coffee Lake Refresh. Comet Lake. Rocket Lake. Alder Lake.

Seven generations they did not have the transistors to bring the FPMUL latency down. No words. Just no words.

This is not a warranted criticism since you are very limited in ways to get latency down. And if you want clocks it'll potentially be a limiter. We should be happy they got it back down.

Skylake went up to 4 cycles but was clocked significantly higher than Broadwell for one. 1 cycle latency increase when the whole chip was at least 10% higher clocked is a very nice tradeoff.

Also Pentium 4 had many novel ideas, which Core adopted too.

poke01 · Monday at 5:44 PM

In a way Arrow Lake is just a souped up MTL base on desktop. We really need for Nova lake for a proper advancement..

SteinFG · Monday at 5:57 PM

poke01 said:
There is no DDR6 on desktop. It’s LPCAMM2 with LPDDR6

Why not CAMM2 with DDR6? Some of you are really convinced DDR6 is not coming to desktop

poke01 · Monday at 6:03 PM

Lunar lake reviews today?

poke01 · Monday at 6:04 PM

SteinFG said:
Why not CAMM2 with DDR6? Some of you are really convinced DDR6 is not coming to desktop

It could either be DDR6/LPDDR6 with CAMM2 etc but DIMM slots ain’t happening in 2027.

ikjadoon · Monday at 6:21 PM

poke01 said:
Lunar lake reviews today?

I guess tomorrow (24th) on release day?

The cycle is exhausting sometimes: announcement date, reveal date, pre-order date, launch date, release date.

Usually, though, somebody gets an embargo date messed up (or never had an embargo) on the review units. Haven't seen any of that yet.

adamge · Monday at 6:42 PM

ikjadoon said:
I guess tomorrow (24th) on release day?

The cycle is exhausting sometimes: announcement date, reveal date, pre-order date, launch date, release date.

Usually, though, somebody gets an embargo date messed up (or never had an embargo) on the review units. Haven't seen any of that yet.

Also factor in the Continuous Improvement Continuous Development model where the product releases in beta form and then relies on months of software patches to reach its potential.

OneEng2 · Monday at 8:51 PM

511 said:
Intel secured 3nm it's upto them to use N3B/E or whatever depending on the contract

I wouldn't think it would work like that since the line space and resources are different for those processes.

OneEng2 · Monday at 8:51 PM

The Hardcard said:
Weren’t all of them more dense than N7?

IIRC, yes.

511 · Monday at 10:53 PM

OneEng2 said:
I wouldn't think it would work like that since the line space and resources are different for those processes.

Yes but they signed for N3 it has multiple variants there must be something in the contract regarding which node to use and how many wafers

DavidC1 · Monday at 10:54 PM

ikjadoon said:
The cycle is exhausting sometimes: announcement date, reveal date, pre-order date, launch date, release date.

Tell me about it. They did that with Tigerlake. No new information, but announcement, than a "technical reveal" at Hot Chips, which was 1-2 extra information, then a pre-launch, and a big fanfare at the launch.

It's a corporate way of saying "DON'T FORGET ME!! I STILL EXIST!!"

adamge said:
Also factor in the Continuous Improvement Continuous Development model where the product releases in beta form and then relies on months of software patches to reach its potential.

Yup. Remember the days when software optimization to get the most out of your CPU was a ridiculous idea?

Maybe the Itanium's reliance on compilers and optimization to make it perform would work nowadays eh?

511 · Monday at 10:58 PM

jdubs03 said:
Hm. Yeah, clearly the focus for this generation is on efficiency. Only 4% higher is certainly under performance related to expectations.
View attachment 108092

Yes but if we take 110-120W for this score and PL1= PL2=181W for 14600 the efficiency is really big

DavidC1 · Monday at 10:59 PM

If there's another clue that they are struggling with their 5N4Y is that Falcon Shores was rumored to move to TSMC N3.

Falcon Shores was introduced with a fanfare and that it would use an "angstrom era" process, heavily indicating 20A/18A.

Wolverine2349 · Monday at 11:04 PM

Josh128 said:
6+8 losing to 12 core Zen 5 by ~6K points?! Im not sure I believe this unless its severely underclocked for efficiency purposes in stock form? If true, per core napkin math puts 285K at ~44.3K. I guess I can believe that but it was supposed to be 47K+ just as of this morning, lol.

I guess not so great given the 8 e-cores are supposed to be so strong like Raptor Cove IPC this time around. And 6 P cores on top of it.

But if it has good gaming performance and consistent scheduling no one will care.

511 · Tuesday at 12:17 AM

Josh128 said:
6+8 losing to 12 core Zen 5 by ~6K points?! Im not sure I believe this unless its severely underclocked for efficiency purposes in stock form? If true, per core napkin math puts 285K at ~44.3K. I guess I can believe that but it was supposed to be 47K+ just as of this morning, lol.

12 core 24 thread vs 6+8C/14t there is a difference in physical thread Count 🙃

Kepler_L2 · Tuesday at 12:37 AM

SiliconFly said:
Intel new code name Razer Lake is out. Maybe a replacement for the now cancelled ARL Refresh. Or a successor to panther lake, with Nova Lake being the desktop. OR follows Nova Lake...

Arrow -> Nova -> Razer -> Titan IIRC.

DrMrLordX · Tuesday at 2:20 AM

Hitman928 said:
Are you asking if it would require new masks if it started as N3b and was ported?

Sure, let's start with that question. Pretty sure I already know the answer but it would be nice to get someone else's thoughts on it.

DavidC1 said:
If there's another clue that they are struggling with their 5N4Y is that Falcon Shores was rumored to move to TSMC N3.

Falcon Shores was introduced with a fanfare and that it would use an "angstrom era" process, heavily indicating 20A/18A.

It might be yeah, but isn't Falcon Shores cancelled anyway?

poke01 · Tuesday at 3:44 AM

Microsoft Hobbles Intel Once Again

Microsoft’s screwing over Intel in May was just the beginning, things are going downhill fast.

www.semiaccurate.com

this reads like an Intel PR piece. Windows is a POS for every chip from either from AMD or Intel.

Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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