Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	12 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	12 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

511 · Tuesday at 8:12 AM

igor_kavinski said:
Must be an inside joke or something. Pairing the Panther CPU with a Cougar core.

May be But from the looks of it NVL Diamond rappids will use 18AP

igor_kavinski · Tuesday at 8:15 AM

511 said:
May be But from the looks of it NVL Diamond rappids will use 18AP

Challenge will be, can they clock Nova to max 5.5 GHz and still beat ARL AND Zen 6? I don't have faith in them that they can scale their process beyond 5.5 GHz.

cannedlake240 · Tuesday at 8:21 AM

igor_kavinski said:
Nova to max 5.5 GHz

Apparently that's covered by N2P nvl... Press f for ifs

igor_kavinski · Tuesday at 8:28 AM

cannedlake240 said:
Apparently that's covered by N2P nvl... Press f for ifs

Intel Nova Lake Rumors: Slated for 2026-2027 Release - ComputerCity

Intel's upcoming Nova Lake CPUs are still a few years away but promise to bring major improvements in computer performance and next gen computing. Rumors

computercity.com

Hmm...the projections there are so rosy that one cannot but take them with a giant Granite of Salt.

BUT...if that all comes to pass, dang...AMD will be in trouble.

511 · Tuesday at 8:32 AM

igor_kavinski said:
Challenge will be, can they clock Nova to max 5.5 GHz and still beat ARL AND Zen 6? I don't have faith in them that they can scale their process beyond 5.5 GHz.

Yes they can 18AP has something exclusively for Higher Clocks lol that is BSPDN and they have relaxed pitches for 18A so it should well every Intel node is able to clock 5+ GHz from the 14nm+++

cannedlake240 · Tuesday at 8:34 AM

igor_kavinski said:
dang...AMD will be in trouble.

Well it's panther Cove*. It's continuation of the Core lineage of Sunny, Golden, Lion Coves. Royal core has never been planned for NVL.

csbin · Tuesday at 8:43 AM

SPEC CPU 2017 | David Huang's Blog

David Huang

Ultra 7 258V

Spec 2017 int rate-1

igor_kavinski · Tuesday at 8:45 AM

511 said:
Yes they can 18AP has something exclusively for Higher Clocks lol that is BSPDN and they have relaxed pitches for 18A so it should well every Intel node is able to clock 5+ GHz from the 14nm+++

Gets harder the higher they go above 5 GHz.

185H is 5.1 GHz (Intel 4. No idea how high Intel 3 goes)

288V is also 5.1 GHz (TSMC)

285K is also TSMC.

That's why I have little faith they can get their act together. We've heard "everything's going great" from Intel numerous times before, right before they hit us with the bad news.

poke01 · Tuesday at 8:47 AM

csbin said:
SPEC CPU 2017 | David Huang's Blog

David Huang

Ultra 7 258V

Spec 2017 int rate-1

View attachment 108123

Yeah Intels got a long to go and there will be more competition from here on out.

igor_kavinski · Tuesday at 8:49 AM

poke01 said:
Yeah Intels got a long to go and there will be more competition from here on out.

At least it's not a trainwreck.

511 · Tuesday at 8:51 AM

HX E core is close to 258V e core just 4% difference 10% clock difference 3.7 vs 3.3 it's on ring as well

Josh128 · Tuesday at 8:58 AM

The int score at 4.8 for the 258V indicates an approximate score of 10.05 @5.1GHz. Will just surpass Strix ST. All thats left to know is fp perf and the big question - power consumption and battery life. Gaming also, I guess.

Hitman928 · Tuesday at 9:05 AM

igor_kavinski said:
At least it's not a trainwreck.

The P-cores having only 2% higher IPC over mobile RPL P-cores isn't exactly a good result. That would be a disaster if it carries over to desktop with the clock speed regressions. I'm going to wait for other results though because some of Huang's mobile Spec results are kind of weird (e.g., the huge gap between MTL-P cores and RPL-P cores).

cannedlake240 · Tuesday at 9:06 AM

511 said:
View attachment 108124
HX E core is close to 258V e core just 4% difference 10% clock difference 3.7 vs 3.3 it's on ring as well

So skymont is only 4% better than gracemont?? Both 13700H and 258V have 3.7Ghz boost Even if Ring based SKT is 5% better it's still only 9% over Gracemont. Nowhere near 15-20% IPC. Something doesn't add up

poke01 · Tuesday at 9:07 AM

that Intel compiler really boosts spec results for Intel marketing huh

cannedlake240 · Tuesday at 9:08 AM

poke01 said:
that Intel compiler really boosts spec results for Intel marketing huh

Shouldn't matter Intel v. Intel

igor_kavinski · Tuesday at 9:10 AM

Hitman928 said:
The P-cores having only 2% higher IPC over mobile RPL P-cores isn't exactly a good result.

A V CPU almost challenging an H CPU is a good result in my books.

cebri1 · Tuesday at 9:11 AM

Lunar Lake 258V CU7 20% faster ST than MTL 155H CU7 in CB24

Hitman928 · Tuesday at 9:13 AM

DrMrLordX said:
Sure, let's start with that question. Pretty sure I already know the answer but it would be nice to get someone else's thoughts on it.

It might be yeah, but isn't Falcon Shores cancelled anyway?

New masks required. Falcon Shores hasn't been cancelled as far as I know, only the CPU+GPU version was cancelled, the GPU only version is still on the roadmap.

Josh128 · Tuesday at 9:14 AM

511 said:
View attachment 108124
HX E core is close to 258V e core just 4% difference 10% clock difference 3.7 vs 3.3 it's on ring as well

Which freq for which core?

poke01 · Tuesday at 9:14 AM

Very interesting, losing to the X Elite but winning against M3

cebri1 · Tuesday at 9:15 AM

Fastest iGPU?

Hitman928 · Tuesday at 9:17 AM

igor_kavinski said:
A V CPU almost challenging an H CPU is a good result in my books.

Do you expect IPC to be much higher for ARL? I'm not counting on a big uplift, it's the same core with some more LLC.

Josh128 · Tuesday at 9:17 AM

Hitman928 said:
The P-cores having only 2% higher IPC over mobile RPL P-cores isn't exactly a good result. That would be a disaster if it carries over to desktop with the clock speed regressions. I'm going to wait for other results though because some of Huang's mobile Spec results are kind of weird (e.g., the huge gap between MTL-P cores and RPL-P cores).

This is just int, still waiting on fp. Need both to determine approx IPC.

cebri1 · Tuesday at 9:17 AM

Battery life

Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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