Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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Tigerick

Senior member
Apr 1, 2022
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As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

ModelCode-NameDateTDPNodeTilesMain TileCPULP E-CoreLLCGPUXe-cores
Core Ultra 100UMeteor LakeQ4 202315 - 57 WIntel 4 + N5 + N64tCPU2P + 8E212 MBIntel Graphics4
?Lunar LakeQ4 202417 - 30 WN3B + N62CPU + GPU & IMC4P + 4E012 MBArc8
?Panther LakeQ1 2026 ??Intel 18A + N3E3CPU + MC4P + 8E4?Arc12



Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Meteor LakeArrow Lake (N3B)Lunar LakePanther Lake
PlatformMobile H/U OnlyDesktop & Mobile H&HXMobile U OnlyMobile H
Process NodeIntel 4TSMC N3BTSMC N3BIntel 18A
DateQ4 2023Desktop-Q4-2024
H&HX-Q1-2025		Q4 2024Q1 2026 ?
Full Die6P + 8P8P + 16E4P + 4E4P + 8E
LLC24 MB36 MB ?12 MB?
tCPU66.48
tGPU44.45
SoC96.77
IOE44.45
Total252.15



Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake



As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)



 

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Hitman928

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Apr 15, 2012
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cebri1 said:
The issue is that we are seeing differences of 20W under load and people are attributing it to the OLED display.
Click to expand...

The display is completely different and has 2x the max frame rate as well as being larger. It probably doesn’t explain the whole difference, but it’s a huge chunk of it. Lots of other little efficiency points can add up to the rest, or close to it.
 
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controlflow

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Feb 17, 2015
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CouncilorIrissa said:

Lion Cove: Intel’s P-Core Roars

Intel’s mobile CPUs have undergone massive changes over the past couple generations as Intel defends its laptop market against AMD, Qualcomm, and to a lesser extent Apple.
chipsandcheese.com
Click to expand...

The conclusion there is certainly different than the general sentiment here towards Lion Cove.

"
Lion Cove is a much improved architecture compared to Redwood Cove, and shows Intel still has potent engineering muscle despite recent setbacks. Traditionally Intel delivered significant architecture changes during a “tock” in a tick-tock cycle. That reduces risk by separately handling process node and architecture changes. Lunar Lake not only combines a new architecture with a move to a new node, but also drops system level changes on top. At a time when Intel’s facing increased pressure from all sides, a move like Lunar Lake is a sign that Intel can adapt and survive.

Intel’s upcoming Arrow Lake desktop CPU will let Lion Cove stretch its legs with more cache and a larger power budget. Lower latency DDR5 should improve performance even further. After seeing Lion Cove perform well in a mobile form factor, I’m optimistic about what the same architecture can do on desktop. Recently Intel has is sitting on a rather unstable foundation right now with Raptor Lake, and Arrow Lake’s release will be a great time to put the company’s high performance chips back on stable footing.

"
 
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MarkPost

Senior member
Mar 1, 2017
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9949asd said:
Can you understand What he’s saying?View attachment 108335View attachment 108336
Click to expand...
dude, thats the whole laptop! not SOC. SOC is fixed to 28W for both.

Thats the reason why any battery life or efficiency comparison between laptops with different components is just misleading and useless (if your goal is to compare SOCs in that regard).

So for that, you need to compare the exact laptop model with the exact other components, SOC apart.

Its not that hard to understand.
 
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9949asd

Member
Jul 12, 2024
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MarkPost said:
dude, thats the whole laptop! not SOC. SOC is fixed to 28W for both.

Thats the reason why any battery life or efficiency comparison between laptops with different components is just misleading and useless (if your goal is to compare SOCs in that regard).

So for that, you need to compare the exact laptop model with the exact other components, SOC apart.

Its not that hard to understand.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? Are you saying 2 more inches screen will use 20+w??? I am so tired about this.
 
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poke01

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2022
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9949asd said:
What are you talking about? Are you saying 2 more inches screen will use 20+w??? I am so tired about this.
Click to expand...
ROG Zephyrus G16 have dGPU so this impacts total system power draw but they should be disabled right?
So yeah where is this extra 20+w difference coming from if all CPUs were limited to 28W, this may mean that AMD's Strix and MTL iGPU is more power hungry then.
 
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NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
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OneEng2 said:
Yet Intel's bottom line is bleeding red while AMD's books are flush. Can you explain this?
Click to expand...
AMD is making huge inroads in the high margin datacenter market, even though they're not really getting anywhere in laptops. (Since they make much higher profits for the same number of wafers, it makes sense that they prioritise that market.)
 
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Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
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poke01 said:
ROG Zephyrus G16 have dGPU so this impacts total system power draw but they should be disabled right?
So yeah where is this extra 20+w difference coming from if all CPUs were limited to 28W, this may mean that AMD's Strix and MTL iGPU is more power hungry then.
Click to expand...

The iGPU power is part of the 28 W limit. If you check the CB result in the review, it’s clear the 28 W limit is in place. It is not that crazy that a near 20 W difference can exist at the system level between these laptops, outside of the SoC power.
 
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KompuKare

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2009
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9949asd said:
What are you talking about? Are you saying 2 more inches screen will use 20+w??? I am so tired about this.
Click to expand...
I think that's mostly a strawman though.
I think what people have been saying repeatedly is that the extra 2 inches on an OLED explains SOME of the difference, not ALL of the differences.

Anyway didn't this start with those WHOLE system power differences with the synthetic scores to make it out like Lunar Lake's was some iGPU miracle?

Because while BMG seems to translate synthetics into gaming performance a lot better than any previous Intel iGPU, there is still a huge difference between synthetics and gaming. At least on the CB review where the synthetic Steel Nomad score was almost double the Strix score, but in games they were almost tied. This may mean that Intel's driver team may be able to squeeze out more performance eventually, on the other hand BG3 and Cyberpunk are both games for which Intel's driver team should already have optimised extensively.
 
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5

511

Golden Member
Jul 12, 2024
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KompuKare said:
I think that's mostly a strawman though.
I think what people have been saying repeatedly is that the extra 2 inches on an OLED explains SOME of the difference, not ALL of the differences.

Anyway didn't this start with those WHOLE system power differences with the synthetic scores to make it out like Lunar Lake's was some iGPU miracle?

Because while BMG seems to translate synthetics into gaming performance a lot better than any previous Intel iGPU, there is still a huge difference between synthetics and gaming. At least on the CB review where the synthetic Steel Nomad score was almost double the Strix score, but in games they were almost tied. This may mean that Intel's driver team may be able to squeeze out more performance eventually, on the other hand BG3 and Cyberpunk are both games for which Intel's driver team should already have optimised extensively.
Click to expand...
IMO
>Synthetic is best case scenario with proper Drivers
> Real games shows how good the game is actually optimized for
It's! Basically Potential vs Actual performance
 
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KompuKare

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511 said:
IMO
>Synthetic is best case scenario with proper Drivers
> Real games shows how good the game is actually optimized for
It's! Basically Potential vs Actual performance
Click to expand...
Theoretically, but my point was there is no way that Intel's drive team have left that much performance on the table for a game like Cyberpunk:
Steel Nomad is 191% Vs Strix
Cyberpunk is 98% Vs Strix.
Further optimisation might gain a few percentage points but almost double? Intel's driver team is not that incompetent.

Also, ComputerBase only tested two games and ComputerBase is notorious for not offending big companies - especially Intel - so neither BG3 nor Cyberpunk are unlikely to be some badly optimised outliner; they are more likely to be featured in any Intel reviewer's guide IMO.
 
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511

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Jul 12, 2024
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KompuKare said:
Theoretically, but my point was there is no way that Intel's drive team have left that much performance on the table for a game like Cyberpunk:
Steel Nomad is 191% Vs Strix
Cyberpunk is 98% Vs Strix.
Further optimisation might gain a few percentage points but almost double? Intel's driver is not that incompetent.

Also, ComputerBase only tested two games and ComputerBase is notorious for not offending big companies - especially Intel - so neither BG3 nor Cyberpunk are likely to be some badly optimised outliner; they are more likely to be featured in any Intel reviewer's guide IMO.
Click to expand...
Cyberpunk is fair game but i want some older games like shadow of war Deus Ex Mankind Divided Prey tested as well it can take time but i want many games from past 7-10 years nowdays we get Buggy mess in the name of video games and no youtuber tests crysis 🙂
 
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MarkPost

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Josh128

Senior member
Oct 14, 2022
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SiliconFly said:
Excellent article.

A snippet from the Chips & Cheese article:
"Intel’s upcoming Arrow Lake desktop CPU will let Lion Cove stretch its legs with more cache and a larger power budget. Lower latency DDR5 should improve performance even further. After seeing Lion Cove perform well in a mobile form factor, I’m optimistic about what the same architecture can do on desktop."

And like always, with ARL-S 285K final, I still think we can expect 15% to ~20% IPC uplift (over 14900K). And >10% to 15% overall ST performance uplift. I've been saying the same all along and I stand by it.

Many initially claimed no more than 5%. Some of them eventually revised it to 9% and some 10%. But I'm saying with very high confidence that it's definitely gonna be greater than 10% easily. Time will tell.

Zen 5 may get hammered!
Click to expand...
Recent Geekbench 6 runs dont support the hammering part at all.


 
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cebri1

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