Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	12 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	12 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

inf64 · 2024-09-28T12:06:56-0400

SiliconFly said:
I think there's a small difference between ES & final silicon.

Hope dies last.

cebri1 · 2024-09-28T12:14:59-0400

It’s because it’s a 16 in… wait, what?

Hitman928 · 2024-09-28T12:39:32-0400

cebri1 said:
View attachment 108381

It’s because it’s a 16 in… wait, what?

Again, that is just 1 element at play. Look at the below example for the Proart and Zehpyrus; same size screens, same CPUs, same battery size, very different battery life results.

It is not unreasonable to have CPUs in completely different laptops drawing the same amount of power, but the system as a whole has wildly different power consumption.

The CB results in JT’s review show the 28W limit is correctly in place, so pointing at system level consumption to try and prove the 28W limit isn’t working is just not good enough when direct performance measurement shows it is working and the difference in system level consumption is explainable.

Edit: it’s probably not a coincidence that the model showing high system power consumption in JT’s review is the same one showing significantly worse battery life in the above screenshot.

coercitiv · 2024-09-28T12:43:29-0400

cebri1 said:
It’s because it’s a 16 in… wait, what?

Food for thought:

cebri1 · 2024-09-28T13:01:22-0400

coercitiv said:
Food for thought:
View attachment 108383
View attachment 108385

15W TDP vs 28W TDP, I’d say is very aligned.

KompuKare · 2024-09-28T13:13:37-0400

Josh128 said:
Recent Geekbench 6 runs dont support the hammering part at all.

285K - Geekbench 6 CPU Search - Geekbench

265K - Geekbench 6 CPU Search - Geekbench

Don't forget that in the best/worst (take your pick) tradition of sensational "journalism" any time one product beats another by even 1-5% it is usually referred to as "stomps", or "destroys", or similar hyperbole.

Hitman928 · 2024-09-28T13:19:56-0400

cebri1 said:
15W TDP vs 28W TDP, I’d say is very aligned.

TDP is basically meaningless now. What matters is what the PL2/PL1 are set at. According to NBC, the Zenbook 14 with the 155h has a lower PL1 (20 W) than the Yoga with the 125u (29 W) but a higher PL2 (64 W vs 41 W). The big reason the Zenbook has such worse battery life is that it has a higher resolution, higher refresh rate, OLED display which will draw way more power than the IPS panel in the Yoga, despite the Yoga having a bigger screen size.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Core-Ultra-5-125U-performance-debut-Lenovo-Yoga-7-2-in-1-16IML9-convertible-review.830675.0.html

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-Zenbook-14-OLED-review-The-1-2-kg-subnotebook-with-120-Hz-OLED-and-Core-Ultra-7.805236.0.html

poke01 · 2024-09-28T13:40:56-0400

If it hasn’t been obvious outlets and YouTubers promote the latest and the current product they are reviewing in the best light possible unless of course the product is so bad they can’t do so.

That being said there a few decent outlets that test everything. So how will Lion Cove hammer Zen5? Probably only in ST and memory support even then most DIY users will pick the X3D parts and creators Intel.

coercitiv · 2024-09-28T14:14:08-0400

cebri1 said:
15W TDP vs 28W TDP, I’d say is very aligned.

I'd say the days when Intel U chips had chipset on package while H chips did not are gone since MTL. AFAIK the SoCs are functionally the same, hence the difference in power under very light loads is only attributable to the rest of the system (components & firmware).

511 · 2024-09-28T14:30:07-0400

poke01 said:
If it hasn’t been obvious outlets and YouTubers promote the latest and the current product they are reviewing in the best light possible unless of course the product is so bad they can’t do so.

That being said there a few decent outlets that test everything. So how will Lion Cove hammer Zen5? Probably only in ST and memory support even then most DIY users will pick the X3D parts and creators Intel.

Well the efficiency problem will be solved as well so it will be even difficult Choice to prioritise what now Unless you have a drop in mobo upgrade

SiliconFly · 2024-09-28T15:16:00-0400

KompuKare said:
Don't forget that in the best/worst (take your pick) tradition of sensational "journalism" any time one product beats another by even 1-5% it is usually referred to as "stomps", or "destroys", or similar hyperbole.

When team red's advocates were spreading the *exact same* hyperbole for the past couple of years, it was okay. But now the tables have turned, it isn't okay anymore? Thats hilarious! Thats hyperbole.

gdansk · 2024-09-28T15:48:05-0400

As far as I can tell neither Arrow Lake nor Zen 5 have changed anything. Based on Geekbench they both look like very unimpressive improvements for typical PCs. And it took both far too long to deliver.

Even process parity with LNL wasn't enough to match the year old M3 in some ways. At this point it really does look like the ARM and Apple yearly cadence - afforded by the smartphone market - will win and remain on top.

KompuKare · 2024-09-28T15:49:49-0400

SiliconFly said:
When team red's advocates were spreading the *exact same* hyperbole for the past couple of years, it was okay. But now the tables have turned, it isn't okay anymore? Thats hilarious! Thats hyperbole.

Reading comprehension? Because I said no such thing - just that I have a very low opinion of what passes for tech "journalism".

AcrosTinus · 2024-09-28T16:00:11-0400

KompuKare said:
Reading comprehension? Because I said no such thing - just that I have a very low opinion of what passes for tech "journalism".

Just a curious time and place to make that criticism...

SiliconFly · 2024-09-28T16:05:09-0400

AcrosTinus said:
Just a curious time and place to make that criticism...

Exactly!

DavidC1 · 2024-09-28T17:38:10-0400

MarkPost said:
you missed @Josh128 post? http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=thread...akes-discussion-threads.2606448/post-41306858

View attachment 108378

Here HX 370 has longer battery life. Different models so yet not a proper comparison, but more accurate than an usseless 14" vs 16"

Lunarlake system has 1800p 120Hz OLED display while Ryzen HX 370 system has 1200p 60Hz OLED display.

Lunarlake is a lot lower power but not enough to make up for that difference.

Hitman928 · 2024-09-28T17:38:48-0400

I'd be interested to see how LNL performs at 20 W or lower, especially in gaming. It probably can't run AAA games well, even it minimal settings, but for light or medium weight games, it should do well and I'm guessing nothing else can keep up with it at the lower power levels.

Josh128 · 2024-09-28T18:46:05-0400

DavidC1 said:
Lunarlake system has 1800p 120Hz OLED display while Ryzen HX 370 system has 1200p 60Hz OLED display.

Lunarlake is a lot lower power but not enough to make up for that difference.

Precisely, and that was point-- to show how much the display impacts the battery life. Others were implying that I was making it up.

The chart I posted even shows the Strix system beating the Snapdragon X Lenovo system with 14.50 inch 16:10, 2944 x 1840 pixel 239 PPI, Capacitive, OLED,90 Hz display.

SiliconFly · 2024-09-28T19:04:25-0400

Hitman928 said:
I'd be interested to see how LNL performs at 20 W or lower, especially in gaming. It probably can't run AAA games well, even it minimal settings, but for light or medium weight games, it should do well and I'm guessing nothing else can keep up with it at the lower power levels.

Battlemage supports upscaling for ray-tracing perf using XeSS. Offers excellent quality (comparable to DLSS). But it still lacks FG. I think frame-gen uses less than half the gpu compute to generate a frame rather than rendering it. Intel did mention that it's coming out with its own FG a.k.a ExtraSS soon. But when it'll reach the masses and/or whether it'll get adopted by popular games is still a question.

Once they release it, LNL should be able to handle AAA titles at a good frame rate with normal settings.

itsmydamnation · 2024-09-28T19:11:57-0400

SiliconFly said:
Battlemage supports upscaling for ray-tracing perf using XeSS. Offers excellent quality (comparable to DLSS). But it still lacks FG. I think frame-gen uses less than half the gpu compute to generate a frame rather than rendering it. Intel did mention that it's coming out with its own FG a.k.a ExtraSS soon. But when it'll reach the masses and/or whether it'll get adopted by popular games is still a question.

Once they release it, LNL should be able to handle AAA titles at a good frame rate with normal settings.

You can use FSR 3.1 FG with XeSS on anything , XeSS is not as good as good DLSS 3.7 generally speaking, you might find specific situations but not overall, not in motion , its probably a bit better then FSR 3.1 upscale overall ( most games better some not). FSR 3.1 FG is basically the best FG so unless intel has something really good cooking I wouldn't bother re-inventing the wheel.

Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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