Official Playstation 5 thread

MoragaBlue · Oct 1, 2024

For me, what the Pro shows is that we've reached a stage of diminishing returns for gaming console performance. In other words, the extra cost I suspect isn't worthwhile for most, since we're seeing more or less marginal improvements.

At a bare minimum, the PS6 had better run everything at 4K 60fps. My TV is 120mhz, and unless it runs some stuff at 4K 120 fps, my Sony fanboy days maybe have finally come to an end.

marees · Oct 1, 2024

MoragaBlue said:
For me, what the Pro shows is that we've reached a stage of diminishing returns for gaming console performance. In other words, the extra cost I suspect isn't worthwhile for most, since we're seeing more or less marginal improvements.

At a bare minimum, the PS6 had better run everything at 4K 60fps. My TV is 120mhz, and unless it runs some stuff at 4K 120 fps, my Sony fanboy days maybe have finally come to an end.

PS6 likely to be released in 2028. Most probably zen 6c + RDNA 6 / UDNA 2 etc.

blckgrffn · Oct 1, 2024

marees said:
PS6 likely to be released in 2028. Most probably zen 6c + RDNA 6 / UDNA 2 etc.

I think a bigger curiosity is if the power budget lifts again. It seems like we will need another 50-100w to really move the bar IMO.

Mopetar · Oct 1, 2024

jpiniero said:
Obvious that Sony is desperate for a Fortnite level GAAS hit.

Chasing the GAAS bandwagon is stupid. If they gave FROM $200 million to make another Bloodborne for the PS5 they'd sell so many copies (and systems) that they wouldn't need a recurring revenue stream.

SteveGrabowski · Oct 1, 2024

MoragaBlue said:
For me, what the Pro shows is that we've reached a stage of diminishing returns for gaming console performance. In other words, the extra cost I suspect isn't worthwhile for most, since we're seeing more or less marginal improvements.

At a bare minimum, the PS6 had better run everything at 4K 60fps. My TV is 120mhz, and unless it runs some stuff at 4K 120 fps, my Sony fanboy days maybe have finally come to an end.

The 45% upgrade in gpu power isn't much, though if Pisser can approach DLSS in quality it could have been an interesting upgrade. But the 62% bump in price four years later is absolute lunacy.

Don't hold your breath on 4k60, it's not going to be standard in four years and it's an unrealistic expectation. Even if they had the horsepower to do that most studios would probably rather turn on RT reflections and make up the performance hit with upscaling. Resolution has such extreme diminishing returns IMO. I run a 4k monitor and sitting right there at the desk playing I have a very hard time telling 1440p and 4k apart even if it's my monitor doing the 1440p to 4k upscale much less using FSR or RSR. Then again I'm in my 40s, maybe it's different in your teens when your eyes are better?

marees · Oct 2, 2024

DigitalFoundry:

If you're invested in the PlayStation platform, if you're going to skip PS5 Pro but will likely get a PS6, the arrival of an enhanced machine is likely very good news for you.

marees said:
Many believe - with some justification - that the PS5 Pro is a step too far and that such a console isn't needed. In fact, we've made the argument ourselves. Looking back at that piece, I warned about higher costs of a Pro console, but also looked at the potential improvements it could bring - all of which have come to pass with PS5 Pro. Microsoft declined the opportunity to follow likewise, but now we have some idea of why Sony has taken a different route and perhaps more of the strategy is now understandable.

Looking at the criticisms of PS5 Pro today, I am reminded of the massive backlash against Nvidia's RTX 20-series products based on the Turing architecture back in 2018. The products were pricey, nobody bought into the AI narrative, ray tracing was derided. And yet today, DLSS upscaling has proven to be one of the most transformative technologies in the PC space - a desired feature for users and coveted by the competition. Ray tracing? With smart technological innovations, an immense level of investment in software like ReSTIR and strategic partnerships with key game makers, Nvidia brought actual path tracing to triple-A games.

None of this happened overnight and yet Nvidia has now effectively defined the direction of travel for graphics innovation and consoles need to catch up. And that's where PS5 Pro comes in. Sony has taken the smart path here, delivering the custom silicon required where AMD did not seem to have any, while at the same time developing PlayStation Spectral Resolution (PSSR) on the software side. We've now been 'eyes on' with PSSR across a range of games and while there's still work to be done in improving it, it's a big leap beyond existing upscaling solutions. But we shouldn't forget that the machine learning hardware isn't just a fixed function AI upscaling block - it can be used for all manner of tasks. PSSR delivers the biggest bang for the buck, but it's just the beginning.

We are looking at such a big change here that absolutely we should be looking at PlayStation 5 Pro as the console that sets the ball rolling for Sony in an area of crucial importance. I'd even venture to suggest that PlayStation 6 may even need PlayStation 5 Pro to exist for this evolution to happen. Sony's technology groups need time to develop technologies like PSSR and to ship them and to refine them. Meanwhile, developers need to grow accustomed to these technologies instead of simply focusing on them for their PC games.

How PlayStation 5 Pro lays the groundwork for PS6 and beyond

A new DF Direct Weekly lands - as usual - today, with the team's thoughts on the recent State of Play, reaction to the …

www.eurogamer.net

jpiniero · Oct 2, 2024

Mopetar said:
Chasing the GAAS bandwagon is stupid.

I think you are underestimating how popular they are.

jpiniero · Oct 2, 2024

marees said:
DigitalFoundry:

If you're invested in the PlayStation platform, if you're going to skip PS5 Pro but will likely get a PS6, the arrival of an enhanced machine is likely very good news for you.

I would expect the PS6 will cost more than the Pro (unless they do a Series S type deal, which is possible)

marees · Oct 2, 2024

jpiniero said:
I would expect the PS6 will cost more than the Pro (unless they do a Series S type deal, which is possible)

I would expect the PS6 to be $200 cheaper than the ps5 pro because that would be subsidized unlike the pro.

My guess is that there will not be any pro versions in future. This is probably the last pro model ever

jpiniero · Oct 2, 2024

marees said:
I would expect the PS6 to be $200 cheaper than the ps5 pro because that would be subsidized

I assume the days of subsidized consoles are over. Could still sell it at cost which would still be a loss but nothing like before.

marees · Oct 2, 2024

Could the PS5 become cheaper ?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1841333513209155720

MoragaBlue · Oct 2, 2024

Mopetar said:
Chasing the GAAS bandwagon is stupid. If they gave FROM $200 million to make another Bloodborne for the PS5 they'd sell so many copies (and systems) that they wouldn't need a recurring revenue stream.

They're trying for the home run ball here, and that's fine, I suppose. It appears Helldivers (I've never nor will I ever play this game) has been a success, but Concord was as huge a flop as any flop can ever be. They have 5 more live service games in the pipeline? Well, one of them had better hit, and I don't think it's Fairgames or Marathon. In my view, if those two flop, Sony Japan will need to start over with SIE with new leadership.

If they had shown a Bloodborne 2, it would've blown up the internet and would've surpassed everything they had shown combined. It just seems that for whatever reason, they either don't want to make Bloodborne or don't think it will succeed. It's almost as if they're saying, "we're Sony, and we can create new IPs, not rely on old ones to make lots of $$."

MoragaBlue · Oct 2, 2024

SteveGrabowski said:
The 45% upgrade in gpu power isn't much, though if Pisser can approach DLSS in quality it could have been an interesting upgrade. But the 62% bump in price four years later is absolute lunacy.

Don't hold your breath on 4k60, it's not going to be standard in four years and it's an unrealistic expectation. Even if they had the horsepower to do that most studios would probably rather turn on RT reflections and make up the performance hit with upscaling. Resolution has such extreme diminishing returns IMO. I run a 4k monitor and sitting right there at the desk playing I have a very hard time telling 1440p and 4k apart even if it's my monitor doing the 1440p to 4k upscale much less using FSR or RSR. Then again I'm in my 40s, maybe it's different in your teens when your eyes are better?

Agreed. The higher price point for the Pro especially from a historical perspective is a very poor value, in my view. However, IMHO, the console is still an integral part of the TV gaming experience, and, for my purposes, there isn't a viable alternative.

As to 4k, I definitely prefer it over 1440p, though I'd take the latter at 60fps vs the former at 30fps. The games I tend to play place a premium on fps and limiting input lag. As to the PS6, we'll have to see. I'm not a big fan of DLSS (I generally disable RT & frame gen, unless I'm playing one of those story mode games, which I generally eschew), and will have to evaluate Sony's PSSR potential input lag. As gamers, we all have our limitations, and mine is the unbearable frustration of dying to a boss because of input lag and low frame rates--I just can't deal with it.

jpiniero · Oct 2, 2024

MoragaBlue said:
If they had shown a Bloodborne 2, it would've blown up the internet and would've surpassed everything they had shown combined. It just seems that for whatever reason, they either don't want to make Bloodborne or don't think it will succeed. It's almost as if they're saying, "we're Sony, and we can create new IPs, not rely on old ones to make lots of $$."

Do a Bloodborne GAAS game then?

MoragaBlue · Oct 2, 2024

jpiniero said:
Do a Bloodborne GAAS game then?

LMAO...Ok, if there's ever a live service that can persuade me to cast aside my aversion to the genre, it'd be this one! I'm dead serious!

Mopetar · Oct 2, 2024

jpiniero said:
I think you are underestimating how popular they are.

-$400 million popular apparently. It doesn't matter how popular some competing game is if you can't get their players to quit and play your game instead. To draw a parallel, look at how long WoW dominated the MMO genre and how much money was thrown away trying to compete.

MoragaBlue said:
It's almost as if they're saying, "we're Sony, and we can create new IPs, not rely on old ones to make lots of $$."

Are we talking about the same Sony here? That doesn't sound much like the Sony that I know.

Also despite what people say about wanting new franchises, what they actually want is a good game. If it's a new entry in an old series they'll buy it, especially if it's a good game. Even if it's just mediocre you can at least bank on fans of the prior games picking it up.

You don't need to hit home runs if you're making solid contact and batting all of your runners around. It's okay to look for new opportunities, but if it's being done at the expense of solid execution I'm not sure it's worth it.

SteveGrabowski · Oct 2, 2024

MoragaBlue said:
They're trying for the home run ball here, and that's fine, I suppose. It appears Helldivers (I've never nor will I ever play this game) has been a success, but Concord was as huge a flop as any flop can ever be. They have 5 more live service games in the pipeline? Well, one of them had better hit, and I don't think it's Fairgames or Marathon. In my view, if those two flop, Sony Japan will need to start over with SIE with new leadership.

If they had shown a Bloodborne 2, it would've blown up the internet and would've surpassed everything they had shown combined. It just seems that for whatever reason, they either don't want to make Bloodborne or don't think it will succeed. It's almost as if they're saying, "we're Sony, and we can create new IPs, not rely on old ones to make lots of $$."

I really hope all five flop. Though hopefully not Concord level since that would kill the company.

SteveGrabowski · Oct 2, 2024

marees said:
I would expect the PS6 to be $200 cheaper than the ps5 pro because that would be subsidized unlike the pro.

My guess is that there will not be any pro versions in future. This is probably the last pro model ever

PS5 Pro shows the era of the subsidized or even sold at cost console is dead. They went the Nintendo route.

MoragaBlue · Oct 3, 2024

Mopetar said:
You don't need to hit home runs if you're making solid contact and batting all of your runners around. It's okay to look for new opportunities, but if it's being done at the expense of solid execution I'm not sure it's worth it.

Agreed. It's imperative to mix in some singles & doubles; as every baseball fan knows, relying on the 3-run homer generally doesn't work out well in October. I just think Sony going into this generation of games, for whatever reason, have been overflowing with hubris. It's almost as if they're saying, "we're Sony, and we can make what we want, not what you want. Don't buy it, if you don't like it." With Bloodborne, again IMHO, it just seems as if they don't really like the IP; or, they'd rather appeal to the non-Bloodborne gamers, who are generally less hardcore, the easy mode aim-assist slower motion story driven casual gamer crowd.

Not that I blame them, because Horizon/GoW sold 25 million units, while Bloodborne only around 7 million? However, I'd note that was pre-ER, and after the 25 million units sold (surprised even FromSoft), I think Sony is underestimating the number of hardcore gamers & ER gamers who would go through a pack of wild horses for a true Bloodborne 2. ER's DLC printed 5 million sold on day 1, which is remarkable for a DLC, in my view.

MoragaBlue · Oct 3, 2024

SteveGrabowski said:
I really hope all five flop. Though hopefully not Concord level since that would kill the company.

From what I've seen, I think Fairgames is going to flop hard, and probably the only one that may reach Concord status. Marathon will flop too, but it has a slightly lower chance of reaching Concordom. I've yet to see the remaining ones, but if they're anything like these two, SIE is a dead subsidiary awaiting Sony Corp reorganization.

sze5003 · Oct 3, 2024

I feel like there are more "souls like" inspired games now more than before. So them appealing to casuals not wanting to do a remaster or remake of Bloodbourne doesn't really make sense with me. I think if that team wanted to do one by now they would have.

SteveGrabowski · Oct 5, 2024

ROFL the marquee deal in PlayStation's new sale is Spiderman 2 for $54.39 a year after launch. I guess $54 is the new $20?

sze5003 · Oct 6, 2024

I never played silent hill and the remake is out Tuesday so I'm looking forward to that but I think I'm going to get it for the PC instead. Hopefully the performance is fine as digital foundry said the PS5 version is better played on quality mode since performance mode dips to 40's and does not maintain solid 60 fps.

igor_kavinski · Oct 6, 2024

sze5003 said:
Hopefully the performance is fine as digital foundry said the PS5 version is better played on quality mode since performance mode dips to 40's and does not maintain solid 60 fps.

The PS5 version has to be really badly optimized crap coz the graphics look only marginally improved compared to the original. The colors are dull and drab, making it look like something from the PS3 era at best. I pity whoever pays $60 for this load of crap. Better to watch the two movies (yes, even the 2nd one is better than playing this crapfest).

marees · Oct 6, 2024

"While it may be pricey, this upgrade may be what finally unlocks the graphical promises of this generation."

marees said:
Gran Turismo 7 supports 120 frames per second, and the AI-powered PSSR scaling might be enough for that to work seamlessly, but I didn’t get to see that in action. What I did see was the 60 fps that stayed consistent across three full races at three different times of day, whether it was the minivan, a cherry red sports car, or the enormous black pickup truck

I took the PS5 Pro for a test drive. Now I'm a believer | Digital Trends

While at Tokyo Game Show, we got hands-on with the PS5 Pro for the first time. And we're already impressed by what we've seen and played.

www.digitaltrends.com

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