Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	12 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	8P + 16E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	36 MB ?	12 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

poke01 · Oct 8, 2024

Wow, this is a total skip generation. Mainly because of the underwhelming P core. If that P core got the 30% IPC boost instead then Intel would have been king till 2026.

igor_kavinski · Oct 8, 2024

poke01 said:
Wow, this is a total skip generation.

If you are a Raptor Lake user and you prefer stability and lower power, you WILL buy Arrow Lake. Plus, you get Aye Aye as bonus. So I don't see a lot of people skipping this if they can easily afford it. The specint performance is decent I guess. If only AMD had worked a little harder on that...

I do find it funny that ARL is doing its best in CBR24 and POV-RAY. Abwx will have quite a few things to say

igor_kavinski · Oct 8, 2024

poke01 said:
If that P core got the 30% IPC boost instead then Intel would have been king till 2026.

If Jim Keller had still been with them, it WOULD have!

Saylick · Oct 8, 2024

Yikes, I think the lower peak clocks and the latency regression vs Raptorlake is what’s holding Arrowlake back in gaming. Basically not worth the upgrade over Raptorlake if gaming is your primary purpose. The 9800X3D will likely claim the gaming crown.

coercitiv · Oct 8, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
If you are a Raptor Lake user and you prefer stability and lower power, you WILL buy Arrow Lake.

If you are a Raptor Lake user then lower power is not a priority. People who needed stability above all else have already moved to Alder Lake or Ryzen by now, the rest were waiting for more performance... which is barely there. (the numbers are higher but they won't translate in a meaningful uplift)

Therefore anyone who's already on RPL has very little incentives to upgrade. I expect the prices won't help either.

poke01 · Oct 8, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
If you are a Raptor Lake user and you prefer stability and lower power, you WILL buy Arrow Lake

True if your on Raptor, you have no choice but to upgrade if you want efficiency and stability for the long term

511 · Oct 8, 2024

AVX-512? For the 1-2%. Anyway meh the only good thing is power consumption i guess

poke01 · Oct 8, 2024

511 said:
AVX-512? For the 1-2%. Anyway meh the only good thing is power consumption i guess

Yep thanks to the newer node, glad to see the power consumption come down.

511 · Oct 8, 2024

This is true i suppose

adroc_thurston · Oct 8, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
If Jim Keller had still been with them, it WOULD have!

Nope

adroc_thurston · Oct 8, 2024

Wait the gaming comparison chart is versus 9950X. Ouchie.

511 · Oct 8, 2024

I don't think Jim keller having or not would have made a difference it's the SOC/IMC killing the performance

Jayzen · Oct 8, 2024

I was right. Despite the vitriol and censorship that has been directed my way over the past year, I have been right about everything.

Zen 5 was underwhelming.
Arrow Lake was underwhelming.
Snapdragon X was underwhelming.
M4 looks to be pretty underwhelming too.

511 · Oct 8, 2024

The chart is with APO enabled so without APO it's gonna tank hard

coercitiv · Oct 8, 2024

Ouch, I did see APO in there but my brain refused to acknowledge the implications.

MoogleW · Oct 8, 2024

511 said:
I don't think Jim keller having or not would have made a difference it's the SOC/IMC killing the performance

Would be interesting to compare latencies of Lunarlake, Arrowlake and Meteorlake. If Arrowlake looks like MTL, then....

adroc_thurston · Oct 8, 2024

MoogleW said:
Something that Intel fixed for Lunarlake

LNL is a relatively marginal main mem lat improvement. It does fix cluster to cluster comms on NOC at least.

tsamolotoff · Oct 8, 2024

Also, consider that the biggest bar in the chart is TW3, which seems to have big issues with dual-ccd Zen5 (maybe due to terribad inter-ccd latency in the release-time agesas)

alcoholbob · Oct 8, 2024

Taking out hyperthreading couldn’t even save Arrow Lake. If the gaming graphs were 14900K HT-Off vs 285K the results would be even worse lmao.

CouncilorIrissa · Oct 8, 2024

jdubs03 said:
Wait there’s more… courtesy of wxnod on Twitter.
Showing a 3% lower result in GB6.3 ST vs. the 9950X.
Looking pretty meh.

Zen5% vs Intel Cope Ultra, the battle of 2024

Kocicak · Oct 8, 2024

https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-admits-core-ultra-9-285k-will-be-slower-than-i9-14900k-in-gaming#disqus_thread

Increasing energy efficiency is great, but the performance itself disappointing.

But what if all these performance numbers are for the conservative default power settings??? It could increase considerably with the 250W power setting.

coercitiv · Oct 8, 2024

CouncilorIrissa said:
Zen5% vs Intel Cope Ultra, the battle of 2024

The clash of the side-grades.

Kepler_L2 · Oct 8, 2024

Kocicak said:
https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-admits-core-ultra-9-285k-will-be-slower-than-i9-14900k-in-gaming#disqus_thread

Increasing energy efficiency is great, but the performance disappointing.

But what if all these performance numbers are for the conservative default power settings???

Oh please let's not have another month of "wait for new BIOS/power limit/windows update".

AcrosTinus · Oct 8, 2024

The worst ending for Intel has happened, the reviewer mob has forced them to pre nerf their chips. Add to it the fiasco with Raptor Lake and the enforced power limits on a overclocker + unlocked chip and we get this bad ending.... pathetic.

A K unlocked chip that will be reviewed as if it has no overclocking and the "K" is just a marketing artifact. It is sadly over....

If there is some OC potential to exceed the 14900K, how many of these AMD curve optimizer tuning, command line running and windows reinstalling folks will do the same for Intel, the marketing machine has worked, I'm saddened to know that a focused and timed mob can indeed push a company towards the wrong path.

A core i9 should be the most unleashed chip, with the highest power consumption and performance, the lower SKUs are for everything else. It should be a halo product like the RTX4090, no one complains about the power consumption under load, the same will be the case for the 5090.

The only way for Intel to survive now is to embrace the power consumption, I don't care about that on a high performance desktop BUT they also must deliver a multi generational leap in ST and MT performance to warrant that power draw, in essence they need a RTX-X090 class product with performance so high, no serious person will talk about the power draw.

Like this though, I'm just disappointed and will return in maybe 4 years to see if there is any positive movement.

Conclusion: Stagnation since Alder Lake

adroc_thurston · Oct 8, 2024

tsamolotoff said:
Also, consider that the biggest bar in the chart is TW3

Not even proper TWW3 mind you, but the sponsored mutator gimmick mode (mirror of madness).

Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Senior member

Attachments

Platinum Member

Lifer

Lifer

Diamond Member

Diamond Member

Platinum Member

Golden Member

Platinum Member

Golden Member

Diamond Member

Diamond Member

Golden Member

Member

Golden Member

Diamond Member

Member

Diamond Member

Senior member

Diamond Member

Senior member

Golden Member

Diamond Member

Senior member

Member

Diamond Member