Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	12 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	8P + 16E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	36 MB ?	12 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

GTracing · Oct 8, 2024

Wolverine2349 said:
On par in gaming with with 9950X is a disaster. The 9950X is barely better than 7950X in gaming (that is assuming dual CCD scheduling fix for 9950X comes out) and quite a bit behind 13th and 14th Gen. And with its dual CCD scheduling crap, 9950X way behind even 9700X. If its on par with that Arrow Lake desktop is worse than dead on arrival if its true. I hope its not.

If Arrow Lake is on par with 13h and 14th Gen in gaming with more features and lower heat output then ok its fine and actually good.

13th and 14th Gen already trade blows with 7800X3D or a little behind and well tuned they jump ahead. SO enthusiasts will buy it if on par with 13th and 14th Gen with the stability fixes and lower heat. Now if its on par gaming wise with vanilla Zen 5, ouch that s very bad.

Any launch day Zen5 reviews/benchmarks are out of date now that the W11H2 bug-fix is out. I haven't seen any comprehensive AMD vs Intel benchmarks after the patch, but it gives roughly 10% more fps. That puts it ahead of Raptor Lake.

511 · Oct 8, 2024

Maybe arrow lake will get a patch as well

Wolverine2349 · Oct 8, 2024

GTracing said:
Any launch day Zen5 reviews/benchmarks are out of date now that the W11H2 bug-fix is out. I haven't seen any comprehensive AMD vs Intel benchmarks after the patch, but it gives roughly 10% more fps. That puts it ahead of Raptor Lake.

Not really. The bug fix also improved Zen 3 and Zen 4 by just as much. Same with the administrator account thing. SO this whole well Zen 5 was held back. Well so were Zen 3 and Zen 4 by almost an equal amount per Hardware Unboxed. So vanilla Zen 5 is still barely a gaming improvement over vanilla Zen 4 using same version of Windows.

It was a bad marketing move by AMD.

Now maybe Zen 4 and 5 got closer to Raptor Lake with the right version of Windows, but Zen 5 over Zen 4 improvement in gaming its not better than 3%.

Wolverine2349 · Oct 8, 2024

coercitiv said:
Yes, waaaaay behind the 9700X.

View attachment 108902

That does not track the 1% lows. The 1% lows per Hardware Unboxed and some other Youtube videos were way behind.

Hitman928 · Oct 8, 2024

Wolverine2349 said:
That does not track the 1% lows. The 1% lows per Hardware Unboxed and some other Youtube videos were way behind.

Hitman928 · Oct 8, 2024

GTracing said:
Any launch day Zen5 reviews/benchmarks are out of date now that the W11H2 bug-fix is out. I haven't seen any comprehensive AMD vs Intel benchmarks after the patch, but it gives roughly 10% more fps. That puts it ahead of Raptor Lake.

Not quite but close to par.

Wolverine2349 · Oct 8, 2024

Hitman928 said:
View attachment 108908

Maybe they have improved it a little bit. But still embarrassing that Zen 5 is behind Zen 4 gaming even after the fixes lol.

ondma · Oct 8, 2024

What disappointing releases from both AMD and Intel. Even worse, it seems like it will be 2 years before any significant improvement. At least, perhaps Intel will be more competitive in power consumption and hopefully will not have stability issues.

Hitman928 · Oct 8, 2024

Wolverine2349 said:
Maybe they have improved it a little bit. But still embarrassing that Zen 5 is behind Zen 4 gaming even after the fixes lol.

If being behind Zen 4x3d is embarrassing, what is ARL?

inquiss · Oct 8, 2024

Wolverine2349 said:
Not really. The bug fix also improved Zen 3 and Zen 4 by just as much. Same with the administrator account thing. SO this whole well Zen 5 was held back. Well so were Zen 3 and Zen 4 by almost an equal amount per Hardware Unboxed. So vanilla Zen 5 is still barely a gaming improvement over vanilla Zen 4 using same version of Windows.

It was a bad marketing move by AMD.

Now maybe Zen 4 and 5 got closer to Raptor Lake with the right version of Windows, but Zen 5 over Zen 4 improvement in gaming its not better than 3%.

All valid points but not really important for the comparison made. Yes Zen 4 to 5 still isn't a big jump, but both have made gains on intel processors which themselves have gone backwards while Zen as a family has improved.

inquiss · Oct 8, 2024

ondma said:
What disappointing releases from both AMD and Intel. Even worse, it seems like it will be 2 years before any significant improvement. At least, perhaps Intel will be more competitive in power consumption and hopefully will not have stability issues.

If you want a gaming processor you get the X3D variant. And that's not two years out. A little bit of fun potential left yet.

ondma · Oct 8, 2024

inquiss said:
If you want a gaming processor you get the X3D variant. And that's not two years out. A little bit of fun potential left yet.

Yet to be seen if the 9xxx series chips are a significant upgrade from the 7800X3D, unlike the rest of the Zen 5 lineup.

KompuKare · Oct 8, 2024

ondma said:
What disappointing releases from both AMD and Intel. Even worse, it seems like it will be 2 years before any significant improvement. At least, perhaps Intel will be more competitive in power consumption and hopefully will not have stability issues.

Or, " hopefully [ARL] will not have stability issues" but disappointingly it might "be 2 years before" we can be sure!

Josh128 · Oct 8, 2024

Saylick said:
WTFtech is in cahoots with Intel… they were one of the publications that got exclusive access to a Meteorlake briefing before everyone else. I suspect they have an ARL review sample already and don’t want to sour their relationship with Intel by commenting on Arrowlake leaks prior to launch while presumably under NDA. But yeah, obvious PR is obvious.

H******n himself appeared in the comments at WCCFTECH this morning and gave a few juicy extra bits that did not look good for ARL. I think he has since deleted them, but one of them was that the 285K was tested with the 250W profile in all these slides. There is definitely some Intel money preventing an article shatpost from popping up there.

inquiss · Oct 8, 2024

ondma said:
Yet to be seen if the 9xxx series chips are a significant upgrade from the 7800X3D, unlike the rest of the Zen 5 lineup.

So? If you want the best gaming processor on the market you still get the X3D variant. Nothing else beats the current version, anything extra is icing on the cake.

trivik12 · Oct 8, 2024

Core -2.85% also disappointed. Not shocking from Intel but disappointing neverthless. Next desktop update is 2 years away with Nova Lake as well. WOW.

gdansk · Oct 8, 2024

trivik12 said:
Core -2.85% also disappointed. Not shocking from Intel but disappointing neverthless. Next desktop update is 2 years away with Nova Lake as well. WOW.

So much opportunity for ARM to get into the dying desktop market (but I doubt they're in a hurry).

Josh128 · Oct 8, 2024

Det0x said:
btw i find it really deafening there aint a single word about this leak over at wccftech.. wanted to check the breakdown in the comments section
guess some PR money found its way over there 😅

Have you been to the thread I referenced earlier? Has 3.5k comments now. They are turning on each other like rabid wolves. The intense copium from the same old characters is off the charts -- some guys are actually, truly sad and depressed over the revelations of today. Its hilarious. Somebody has definitely gotten a directive to not make an article about the situation. H doesnt miss an opportunity like this, and he was actually posting in the comments a couple hours ago about it. Its not like he's out of pocket.

MarkPost · Oct 8, 2024

GTracing said:
Any launch day Zen5 reviews/benchmarks are out of date now that the W11H2 bug-fix is out. I haven't seen any comprehensive AMD vs Intel benchmarks after the patch, but it gives roughly 10% more fps. That puts it ahead of Raptor Lake.

and the new AGESA 1.2.0.2 fixing the latency ssue. I have compared my 9950X before and after and game perfomance is improved another ~4-5%

Joe NYC · Oct 8, 2024

Wolverine2349 said:
Are you saying warning us Arrow Lake will be disappointing based on Lunar Lake results, or that we cannot base Lunar Lake results on how Arrow Lake will perform?

Based on Lunar Lake info that was released by Intel at the time (whatever one might think about it).

That Arrow Lake gains vs. Raptor Lake will be smaller than Lunar Lake vs. Meteor Lake gains.

Some people expected same or bigger gains from Arrow Lake.

igor_kavinski · Oct 8, 2024

AcrosTinus said:
I sold my 13700k and 12900K systems for this as well, hence my panic.

285K would at least be better than both of those.

Saylick · Oct 8, 2024

Josh128 said:
Have you been to the thread I referenced earlier? Has 3.5k comments now. They are turning on each other like rabid wolves. The intense copium from the same old characters is off the charts -- some guys are actually, truly sad and depressed over the revelations of today. Its hilarious. Somebody has definitely gotten a directive to not make an article about the situation. H doesnt miss an opportunity like this, and he was actually posting in the comments a couple hours ago about it. Its not like he's out of pocket.

That's the hard part about being the lead author for an infamous rumor mill website that is trying to also be legit and do sponsored Day 1 reviews. One does not simply go from having the reputation of having zero credibility to all of a sudden trying to do right by signing NDAs and only reporting on official slides. It's like trying to have their cake and eat it, too.

Saylick · Oct 8, 2024

ondma said:
What disappointing releases from both AMD and Intel. Even worse, it seems like it will be 2 years before any significant improvement. At least, perhaps Intel will be more competitive in power consumption and hopefully will not have stability issues.

I can see how this plays out already...

GTracing · Oct 8, 2024

Saylick said:
I can see how this plays out already...

View attachment 108918

Funny meme, but the other commenter wasn't even close to saying performance doesn't matter. The majority of the comments here are totally reasonable.

gaav87 · Oct 8, 2024

Not looking good.

Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Senior member

Attachments

Member

Golden Member

Senior member

Senior member

Diamond Member

Diamond Member

Senior member

Diamond Member

Diamond Member

Senior member

Senior member

Diamond Member

Golden Member

Senior member

Senior member

Senior member

Diamond Member

Senior member

Senior member

Platinum Member

Lifer

Diamond Member

Diamond Member

Member

Member