Another Isuzu Trooper thread from yours truly: Resetting the engine computer (ECM) on my 95 Trooper LS

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,950
1,603
126
The saga continues. I have invested to a degree that almost exceeds prudence with this vehicle, because I love it and I'm attached to it. I believe it has a machine Manitou -- an Algonquin "Great Spirit" manifestation that can exist even in inanimate objects. [I could tell you my own story, and how I was advised by a Shaman that "The Bear is your animal guide in the Spirit World." You could check the records at Whitefish Hospital for August to September 1972. You figure it out -- this thread is about my Trooper. When I polish it, the Manitou is pleased and the vehicle runs better!]

Since 2009, seven years following my purchase of this 1995 vehicle, it has given me "noisy valve lifter" and valve train noise. The fact is simple: I didn't possibly know, nor could many mechanics, that you would need to replace several sensors communicating with the ECM after 100,000 miles.

With continuous use of 16 oz Marvel Mystery Oil, 16 oz of Full Synthetic High Mileage 10W-40 mixed with four quarts of 10W-30 Full Syn HM oil -- preferably the same brand and product moniker, like "Edge" for instance as a Castrol product. All the sludge and varnish is gone. Just before the engine is at full operating temperature, the "tick-tick-tick-tick" would just disappear. Then later, it might come back, but filling the crankcase with exactly 8 oz exceeding the "Full" mark would really put a damper on the noise. Many times, "the noise" just wouldn't be audible at all, even if I were wearing my hearing aids.

So, on my recent trip to parts just east of Lake Tahoe on the Great Basin's edge, I noticed when I came to that altitude of 5,000+ that the "tick-tick-tick-tick" had returned. The Trooper otherwise gave stellar performance in a comfortable ride down US 395, where you will see several biker gangs on their Harley's from time to time. They like the road; they like the visual display of varied landscapes, lakes, mountains, clouds or every other thing.

And I returned home to Riverside in So-Cal evening of the 12th, pulled into the garage, opened the window and listened carefully: "Tick-tick-tick-tick-tick . . . . " and so on. But one has to listen carefully, because this engine has been treated with TLC for at least the last five years of its long life. Any other person who hadn't driven the Trooper for 22 years and the last 120,000 of its 203,750 mile life, would likely miss it, or they would miss it for just being automotively less familiar. I often would open my window when pulled up alongside a recent model car or truck, so I could hear my "tick-tick-tick-tick" echo off its door and sidepanel surface.

I researched all the possible causes -- a causal analysis, if you wish. Possible low oil-pressure? Or therefore oil-pump needs replacement? Wrong oil viscosity? Possibly even a PCV valve or fuel-injector noise? I can buy the low viscosity argument, and I had momentary panic when I considered the oil-pump factor or its likelihood. But it did not want for oil, with the extra quarter-quart topped above the high fill-mark on the dipstick.

This morning, I had an inspiration. I decided to reset the ECM: disconnect the battery at NEG; put key in ignition and turn fully as if to start the car; hold the key in place for 60 seconds; retrieve key and reconnect battery.

First thing I notice: initial startup idle pegs at 1,000 and then drops to it's spec 750 rpm as the engine warms up. There is NO tickety-tick-ticking. None.

But if you've reset an ECM in the past, what would cause it to need resetting in the present? Would it be environmental factors like barometric pressure, air density, humidity and other things? Or was this a flaw in the programming of the ECM in the first place?

It takes about five minutes, after which you need to reinitialize all the electronic gadgets and digital radio frequency to set it for a signal from the MP3 player I installed, which looks like a digital radio. Disconnecting the battery has consequences for these electronics, but only because it causes a reset to every one of them. But that's about it.

I also read somewhere that it could be a slight loosening or stretching in the timing belt. But my timing belt -- installed around 2009 -- still has 14,500 miles to go on its replacement interval of 60,000 miles. That is, this factor might cause the valve noise. But if that were true, I wouldn't have the result the Trooper gave me this afternoon after being made totally quiet.

Comment? Insight? Thoughts? I'm focused on this new discovery about the ECM, and the first half of my day was like an orgasm because of it. I think I want to go for a drive this evening -- like --- right now.
 
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thedarkwolf

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 1999
9,007
111
106
My guess would be you have a sticky and/or leaky hydraulic lash adjuster aka lifter and the battery reset thing is just a coincidence. Probably the 1000 rpms pumped it up quicker than usual. 200k miles is a lot and they are probably tired. I have a 95 miata and that gen is known for their lifter tick. I use to use it as my gauge as to when to change the oil. Tick doesn't go away after a while, time to change the oil. If you go into the miata forums there are all kinds of "fixes" different oils, weights, additives,,,,,,,, but they are all just bandaids. When I did the timing belt it wasn't much more work to just go ahead and put new lifters in it. Still ticks at start up if it sits for week or so.
 

deadlyapp

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2004
6,627
721
126
My guess would be you have a sticky and/or leaky hydraulic lash adjuster aka lifter and the battery reset thing is just a coincidence. Probably the 1000 rpms pumped it up quicker than usual. 200k miles is a lot and they are probably tired. I have a 95 miata and that gen is known for their lifter tick. I use to use it as my gauge as to when to change the oil. Tick doesn't go away after a while, time to change the oil. If you go into the miata forums there are all kinds of "fixes" different oils, weights, additives,,,,,,,, but they are all just bandaids. When I did the timing belt it wasn't much more work to just go ahead and put new lifters in it. Still ticks at start up if it sits for week or so.
This.

I had a 3000gt notorious for lifter tick, only real fix was to replace the lifters with ones that had larger oil ports. Higher weight oil helped (because the pressure would be higher), other oil modifiers like Marvel would help, but they were only band aids.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,950
1,603
126
Thank you for your insights. My repair-shop's service advisor who recently retired (taking his experience with him) had a Chevy Suburban with lifter-tick, and we were comparing notes about Marvel Mystery Oil. For MMO, I bet I have the cleanest 30-year-old engine in all of So-Cal!

But one has to ask why the noise returns at all. I'll talk to Michael -- the repair-shop owner -- and see about replacing the lifters when we replace the timing belt.

I've done the math six ways to Sunday, as they say. I can spend a few thousand bucks a year on this beast, but it's still less than half what a car-note/mortgage would cause me annually with regular monthly bills.

I have done so much toward repair, maintenance and restoration of this old Trooper that it's not just some old beater, and I can take my time looking for a deal on a RAV4 Prime.

The only reason to buy a new or recent-model pre-owned vehicle is the Trooper's gas mileage, and then only the city mileage. I'm getting 18.5 mpg on the highway. A lot of folks think that's pretty good for moving the Trooper down the highway; it's otherwise built like a tank with the weight of its era. Gives me a "safe" feeling, too.

I know it's better in other US states, but on US 395 and in California and Nevada, gas was costing me about $4.20/gal. It's easy to keep the tank topped up at that price. The only inconvenience is waiting in line at COSTCO.

Someone tells me that gasoline in the state of Maine is less than $3/gal. Makes me want to live in a mountain cabin as Walter White had to do in "Breaking Bad".

Well, I'm going to go fire up the Trooper just so I can drive to the park down the hill and walk my morning mile.

BY THE WAY. There's a RISLONE additive touted online as a fix for this. Are there any drawbacks for using RISLONE? What exactly does it do? Thicken the oil?
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,950
1,603
126
Posting again about the experience of "no lifter-tick" so far.

three days after resetting the ECM, and still no lifter tick returning. If that's the case, how would it also be the case that I have "weak hydraulic lifters" that should be replaced?

Saw my repair-shop owner today, and he recommends against it. I think, instead, this has something to do with changing weather (barometric pressure, humidity, temperature) and the quality of the fuel (SHELL Premium isn't as good as COSTCO Premium, and changing octanes might also factor in).

So what did I do with my morning? As when we were in high-school or college: "I pulled a cruise and took a pleasure drive." With gasoline at a So-Cal COSTCO at $4.20.

Maybe tomorrow, I'll run 'er out to the DIY carwash, to please the Trooper Manitou. If the Manitou could speak, he/she/it would say "Suit yourself, Bro. It's just a little fine dust from Owen's Lake, and I am already pleased."

Also, and although I purchased a bottle of it this morning, Rislone Oil Treatment does the same thing as MMO. I'm going to wait at least another 1,000 miles before I change the oil again. Let the Blue Devil stuff do its' thing.

UPDATE AND INSIGHTS:

I think I have a better idea what has happened with this 30-year-old vehicle. First, let me say that all the advice and insights provided by others here are good and useful.

But here's the history of 22 years in a nutshell. I took the vehicle from 95,000 miles at time of purchase until now at 204,000. Until now, all the engine sensors communicating with the ECM are the factory originals. But because we had to replace the fuel pressure regulator which had been malfunctioning to create a hard-start situation when engine was warm, we also chose to replace several of the sensors:

MAP sensor
Throttle Position Sensor
Engine Temperature Sensor
and --
HO2 or heated oxygen sensor


We also replaced the EGR valve, given the opportunity we had when the intake manifold was removed as pertains to the fuel pressure regulator or valve. But there were no symptoms suggesting that the original EGR valve was not working properly.

The HO2 sensor was not replaced until a month after the others, but I don't think anyone had reset the ECM. Given the sensor replacements, it should''ve been reset. Without explaining further, I'd think that most members here can see why the ECM should be reset after replacing sensors which send data to it.

I just ran out to the garage to check the Trooper again, so I started it up and let it warm up as it idled. At no time through this warm-up process was there any lifter-tick, but everyone tells me -- and I know firsthand -- that lifter-tick will occur with old cars before they've warmed up.

Whatever sounds are coming from that V-6 3.2l engine, it sounds pretty damn good.

I am glad I've held onto this old orphaned Trooper. I am blessed!
 
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,950
1,603
126
A NEW UPDATE:

With hearing aids, there is still a very faint vestige of this lifter noise. To get rid of it, I topped up the oil about a half to 3 / 4 of a quart above the full mark. I do not believe this level of excess overfilled is going to cause cavitation or foaming. But this suggests to me that replacement with 10W-30 may improve oil pressure a bit and eliminate the noise.

The lifter-tick has been present as I remember since 2009 or 47,400 miles. We'd eliminated a good portion of it with MMO at every oil change. I see online advice suggesting that the weak lifter(s) may ruin your engine, but my online investigations and experience, together with remarks from my shop-owner, his technician and his recently-retired service advisor doesn't seem to indicate any sort of serious damage. In other words -- "it's just a noise".

There's no indication such as misfiring on a cylinder. It runs smooth at idle, and the tick goes away at any higher RPMs.

My retired-mechanic cousin seems to think that -- at most -- I should only need to have work done on the upper engine, as opposed to a complete overhaul or replacement with a reman unit. But not now.
 
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