Question Intel and AMD form x86 Ecosystem Advisory Group

moinmoin · Oct 15, 2024

I think this deserves a new dedicated thread:

511 said:
https://x.com/intelnews/status/1846235988277842148
Team x86 let's go

In the advisory group are: Broadcom, Dell, Google, HP, HPE, Lenovo, Meta, Microsoft, Oracle, Red Hat, Tim Sweeney of Epic Games and Torvalds of the Linux Foundation.

Dayman1225 said:
Interview of Lisa Su and Pat Gelsinger about it here

AMD, Intel Mobilize Major Tech Companies To Extend X86 Architecture

AMD's and Intel's CEOs explain why they have joined forces to create a blue-chip advisory board to shape the future of the ubiquitous x86 microprocessor architecture.

www.forbes.com

Nice quotes from that "interview":

"Gelsinger cited security models as an example where the two companies “haven’t done our ecosystem a favor” by pursuing different approaches. “I think we could have done a better job and had a more active upstreaming of shared operating system-level support in the past,” he told me. He added that Linus Torvalds, among others, expressed a specific interest in that area as one where the two companies might reach better alignment."

"Su told me that she and Gelsinger sponsored some high-level discussions between the companies’ engineers."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846236984777338948

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846249205385625805

DZero · Oct 15, 2024

Maybe they want to bury the hatchet and bring more x86 competitors to fight ARM back?
Or also to be prepared to RISC-V?

Maybe with that they would try to revive the Raspberry Pi idea but for x86?

moinmoin · Oct 15, 2024

The Doc's comment:

Thunder 57 · Oct 15, 2024

It does. When I first read of it I was surprised. For a moment. After that, it did seem to make sense.

jpiniero · Oct 15, 2024

The "Youtuber makes stupid faces" thing always amuses me.

Nothingness · Oct 15, 2024

My favorite quote:

“There are billions of Arm cores going out there in the world, [and] to some degree, I view all of those as in the target market that’s available to x86 going forward.”

I still have fond memories of Intel entering the phone market with Atom, and the embedded market with Quark. What a success.

KompuKare · Oct 15, 2024

Nothingness said:
My favorite quote:

I still have fond memories of Intel entering the phone market with Atom, and the embedded market with Quark. What a success.

Well, of the twit's, AMD's is actually worse because:
"The world's most widely computing architecture"
is surely ARM buy a very long shot even if we were to only count Android.

poke01 · Oct 15, 2024

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846248406295118161

It should have happened ages ago.

lopri · Oct 15, 2024

What will come out of it first?

DZero · Oct 15, 2024

Nothingness said:
My favorite quote:

I still have fond memories of Intel entering the phone market with Atom, and the embedded market with Quark. What a success.

Funny story the Atom on phones would have more success... what they ruined was SoFia. If they continued the trend, they would have a little more success.

Kosusko · Oct 15, 2024

What about Zhaoxin? Are they part of this as well?

poke01 · Oct 15, 2024

Kosusko said:
What about Zhaoxin? Are they part of this as well?

With how Anti-China the USA Gov is recently that’s not happening.

soresu · Oct 15, 2024

moinmoin said:
I think this deserves a new dedicated thread:

In the advisory group are: Broadcom, Dell, Google, HP, HPE, Lenovo, Meta, Microsoft, Oracle, Red Hat, Tim Sweeney of Epic Games and Torvalds of the Linux Foundation.

Nice quotes from that "interview":

"Gelsinger cited security models as an example where the two companies “haven’t done our ecosystem a favor” by pursuing different approaches. “I think we could have done a better job and had a more active upstreaming of shared operating system-level support in the past,” he told me. He added that Linus Torvalds, among others, expressed a specific interest in that area as one where the two companies might reach better alignment."

"Su told me that she and Gelsinger sponsored some high-level discussions between the companies’ engineers."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846236984777338948

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846249205385625805

Surprised at the lack of Sony on the partner list.

Markfw · Oct 15, 2024

soresu said:
Surprised at the lack of Sony on the partner list.

Not a CPU mfg. probably the reason

branch_suggestion · Oct 15, 2024

This was the obvious play for a long time, now that Intel can see reason again here we are.
You can look at the obvious goal vs competing ISAs but this goes well beyond that, it is finally acceptance from Intel that AMD are not their enemy, not the main one anyway.
On the fabs side of course TSMC is, but fabs and design will be separate companies one day so not that either.
AMD had Intel beaten with Rome and its successors, they knew then who the main rival would be which really accelerated the EHP roadmap beyond just the DoE contracts.
And now Intel know too, but have no real say in the accelerator market for a good while which means burying the x86 hatchet is the right play for both companies.

This announcement is de facto AMD and Intel working together to beat NV, simple as that. Their goals are now aligned fully against the green eye of envy.
Because Intel might as well fold the design arm if they cannot eat at NV's market share, they are a useless company if they try to compete vs AMD alone.

dttprofessor · Oct 16, 2024

X86s apx avx10.2

soresu · Oct 16, 2024

Markfw said:
Not a CPU mfg. probably the reason

They have reason for the same reason Tim Sweeney does + their own skin in the console game, because whatever part MS plays in this new thing they certainly will be thinking about both Xbox and Windows gaming.

soresu · Oct 16, 2024

Nothingness said:
and the embedded market with Quark

Oh wow, I completely forgot that core lineage even existed 😅

Kepler_L2 · Oct 16, 2024

branch_suggestion said:
This was the obvious play for a long time, now that Intel can see reason again here we are.
You can look at the obvious goal vs competing ISAs but this goes well beyond that, it is finally acceptance from Intel that AMD are not their enemy, not the main one anyway.
On the fabs side of course TSMC is, but fabs and design will be separate companies one day so not that either.
AMD had Intel beaten with Rome and its successors, they knew then who the main rival would be which really accelerated the EHP roadmap beyond just the DoE contracts.
And now Intel know too, but have no real say in the accelerator market for a good while which means burying the x86 hatchet is the right play for both companies.

This announcement is de facto AMD and Intel working together to beat NV, simple as that. Their goals are now aligned fully against the green eye of envy.
Because Intel might as well fold the design arm if they cannot eat at NV's market share, they are a useless company if they try to compete vs AMD alone.

I don't see it as a response to NVIDIA but more that Intel finally realized losing market share to AMD isn't so bad, while losing market share to ARM is disastrous. Plus it will avoid weird situations like the whole AVX-512/AVX10 saga.

branch_suggestion · Oct 16, 2024

Kepler_L2 said:
I don't see it as a response to NVIDIA but more that Intel finally realized losing market share to AMD isn't so bad, while losing market share to ARM is disastrous. Plus it will avoid weird situations like the whole AVX-512/AVX10 saga.

Of course, but there is a symbolic undertone, that there is a bigger fish to fry than the one they've been doing.
Cleaning up x86 and ensuring both players have similar features across the board will make developers very happy.
Also ARM is under partial NV suzerainty even though the deal failed, so long as Rene Haas is CEO.

coercitiv · Oct 16, 2024

Kepler_L2 said:
I don't see it as a response to NVIDIA but more that Intel finally realized losing market share to AMD isn't so bad, while losing market share to ARM is disastrous. Plus it will avoid weird situations like the whole AVX-512/AVX10 saga.

If I were to guess what @branch_suggestion is thinking (like a proper token predictor), I would say this cooperation or "synchronization" on x86 might facilitate something similar in the field of GPU compute. Results in the first stage would influence the other.

MS_AT · Oct 16, 2024

I wonder does this mean that consumer hardware will converge on AVX10/256 only or will AMD keep AVX10/512 across the stack going forward (double pumped or native).

controlflow · Oct 16, 2024

Video interview with Pat and Lisa

poke01 · Oct 16, 2024

it’s good that Nvidia merger with ARM failed. If it passed in a mythical world then the CPU industry would’ve been much worse.

There is a reason why NV wanted to buy ARM that is fully control the spec. In the past and currently ARM is heavily influenced by Apple and other ARM associates. NV likely wanted to be the sole beneficiary and cut everyone out or least have the final say. ARM is structured very well and that’s something Intel/AMD should have focused on in the 1990s/2000s.

RISC-V is not a threat yet to x86, it’s more fragmented and that will take another decade or two to be feasible in HPC.

It’s clear who’s not in this group: Apple, Nvidia, Samsung, Amazon and notice the lack of Chinese companies. No Tencent or Alibaba. The companies that are included are heavily reliant on x86 to survive. Dell, HP, Lenovo and Microsoft as well a few other stakeholders.

Nothingness · Oct 16, 2024

branch_suggestion said:
Also ARM is under partial NV suzerainty even though the deal failed, so long as Rene Haas is CEO.

How exactly? Just because Haas is an ex Nvidia employee? Then Intel is under suzerainty of Gelsinger ex employer?

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