8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

BFG10K · Jul 13, 2021

8GB

Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

10GB / 12GB

Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

It's the player's fault.
It's the reviewer's fault.
It's the developer's fault.
It's AMD's fault.
It's the game's fault.
It's the driver's fault.
It's a system configuration issue.
Wrong settings were tested.
Wrong area was tested.
Wrong games were tested.
4K is irrelevant.
Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
It's an anomaly.
It's a console port.
It's a conspiracy against NV.
8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

Mopetar · Oct 15, 2024

Using RT or frame generation technology does seem to add an additional 2 GB or more to the existing VRAM requirements of the game, so it is tangentially related.

There are probably some titles where a mid-range card that could otherwise provide acceptable performance is tanking its FPS due to VRAM limitations.

For other games those problems occur even before turning RT or other effects on.

Ranulf · Oct 15, 2024

Veilguard only needs 4gb vram for 1080 30fps! RT mode wants 10GB min though.
via

https://twitter.com/x/status/1846212097400885490

DAPUNISHER · Oct 16, 2024

Crikey, footnote says average fps includes upscaling.

Ranulf · Oct 16, 2024

Yup, welcome to the future. Upscaling for all. Hardware makers are happy and the game devs save money on optimization time.

marees · Oct 16, 2024

Ranulf said:
game devs save money on optimization time

Upscaling is The optimization (esp. If you have 8gb cards for $400)

DAPUNISHER · Oct 16, 2024

Ranulf said:
Yup, welcome to the future. Upscaling for all. Hardware makers are happy and the game devs save money on optimization time.

Native res should eat even more vram.

BTW, 343 is now Halo Studios and switched to UE5. I am expecting the next game to be a vram hog. Infinite already had the textures not loading problem with the slipstream engine. Also, they stated they wanted to get back to Halo being among the most visually stunning games. Basically a return to classic form.

coercitiv · Oct 16, 2024

marees said:
Upscaling is The optimization (esp. If you have 8gb cards for $400)

Incorrect™: the optimization is to patch the game so that it unloads assets from memory before hitting the 8GB red line.

Ranulf said:
Veilguard only needs 4gb vram for 1080 30fps!

It's not an open world game, easier to control the mem footprint. That being said, wait for actual gameplay on 4GB cards to see the experience.

Mopetar · Oct 17, 2024

Ranulf said:
Yup, welcome to the future. Upscaling for all. Hardware makers are happy and the game devs save money on optimization time.

This is what I was worried about when DLSS first launched. Rather than being used as a way to help older cards stay relevant for longer it would instead become a crutch to avoid optimization and a way for developers to make unrealistic claims about performance. The people in various threads claiming FSR/DLSS was better than native were proof that it would work for part of the market.

The road to hell is paved with upsampled bricks of good intentions.

DAPUNISHER · Oct 17, 2024

TAA being teh suck makes the better than native observations somewhat valid.

The studios that are leaning on upscaling are going to suffer financial losses that will make them fall over. If the many millions of handheld, mini PC, APU laptop, and old vid card owners can't play the game well enough, even with upscaling, that's a lot of lost sales. Example: W1zz says Silent Hill 2 is unplayable on Steam Deck or ROG Ally.

Mopetar · Oct 18, 2024

DAPUNISHER said:
Silent Hill 2 is unplayable on Steam Deck or ROG Ally.

I'm sure those can run a PS2 emulator just fine. The graphics of the original still hold up well enough in my opinion and it's the sort of game that's played for the ambiance and aesthetic more so than the graphical fidelity.

jpiniero · Oct 18, 2024

I'd expect actual current gen AAA games to not run on the Deck/APUs. It's simply not powerful enough. Kind of a testiment to how long the previous gen has lasted that the Deck is still getting supported AAA games.

Mopetar · Oct 19, 2024

Yeah, I'm surprised as well. If there were a desktop card equivalent AMD would have sold it as an RX 6200 or something like that.

It's not even like typical consoles where a developer will optimize for a specific system to be able to squeeze out more effective performance either.

mikeymikec · Oct 20, 2024

techfreak785 said:
8GB is more than sufficient.
We have a few years before we require a GPU with more than 8 gigs of VRAM

Thank you for your response in which you evidently reviewed the evidence in the OP at the very least and took the time to put forward counter-arguments with substance.

Golgatha · Oct 21, 2024

Cyberpunk 2077, no DLSS, RT at Ultra, 1440p, getting about 90FPS. Yes it looks amazing on an OLED with true HDR.

Golgatha · Oct 21, 2024

Diablo 4 1440p with RT and HDR enabled.

psolord · Oct 22, 2024

Hitman928 said:
I agree. But he has definitely been arguing in bad faith for a while now.

Mopetar said:
I don't think he's a troll. He legitimately believes what he's saying despite countless people having pointed out how it's incorrect.

No actual troll would hang around for a year and put that much effort into posting when there're far easier targets. Meanwhile I can definitely expect someone with strongly held beliefs to do exactly that.

I don't think it should be against the rules to have an unpopular opinion or to even be factually incorrect. It costs others little to ignore a poster they don't like or to merely point out the incorrect statements or present a counter-argument with their own opinion.

If the other poster could be banned for "trolling" what prevents someone else for demanding that I be banned for the same reason just because they don't like my opinions in this thread or consider my arguments to be fallacious?

DAPUNISHER said:
@Mopetar

Exactly.

Use the ignore feature if any of you don't want to read the constant barrage of third rate, bigger bar better bullcrap.

It's a classic case of the backfire effect.

Guys I am not trolling. And I don't know where that bad faith is coming from. I see numbers, I compare numbers. I do my own tests. I share them. I am defending my point of view, is all.

Regarding the "bigger bar better bullcrap" as per the quote, if you don't think that in Silent Hill 2 remake, at 1080p, the 3060ti's 45fps is better than the 34fps of the 3060, then I don't really know what to say.

Silent Hill 2 Remake Performance Benchmark Review - 35 GPUs Tested

Silent Hill 2 Remake lets you relive the iconic classic with modern graphics thanks to Unreal Engine 5. The PC version offers enhanced visuals, featuring support for cutting-edge technologies like DLSS, FSR and ray tracing. In our performance review, we'll look at the game's graphics quality...

www.techpowerup.com

You can also see:

4060ti8GB vs 16GB no difference
4060ti 8GB being faster than then 6800XT 16GB
7600XT 16GB landing on its face

Also here are some more gamegpu tests.

How is the 3060 better than the 3060ti? How is vram helping? Which card has aged better and why are these in bad faith?

Just to be clear, I have been arguing from the beginning, that gpu power is more important. Was I wrong? Why is this in bad faith? Look how many games are unplayable even on 16GB cards. Vram ain't helping mates.

mikeymikec · Oct 22, 2024

psolord said:
Guys I am not trolling. And I don't know where that bad faith is coming from. I see numbers, I compare numbers. I do my own tests. I share them. I am defending my point of view, is all.

Your argument involves two prongs:

1) See, this game isn't VRAM limited! 8GB cards are fine
2) If a game is being limited by VRAM then the settings need to be adjusted to show that it's not limited by VRAM, or it's the developer's fault for being lazy

It would be like if someone ran a "scientific" experiment and kept removing results that don't align with their hypothesis.

That is at least why I think you're arguing in bad faith. There's logically no evidence that could convince you otherwise.

marees · Oct 22, 2024

Realistically speaking, if someone asked me a suggestion between 4060 8gb or 3060 12gb, I would always recommend the 3060 8gb

On AMD side it is the 6800 16gb (over the 12gb 6750xt or 7700xt ) as long as it is available

Iron Woode · Oct 22, 2024

psolord said:
How is the 3060 better than the 3060ti? How is vram helping? Which card has aged better and why are these in bad faith?

Really? You can't figure out the difference between those 2 cards?

Did you figure out the difference between a 1060 3GB and a 1060 6GB?

Is this even a serious question? Are you being deliberately obtuse?

This is why everyone disagrees with you.

Ranulf · Oct 22, 2024

psolord said:
You can also see:

4060ti8GB vs 16GB no difference
4060ti 8GB being faster than then 6800XT 16GB
7600XT 16GB landing on its face

It is ultimately going to depend on the game/game engine. I just saw a developer for the axis unseen demo, talking about how he had to optimize UE5 to keep his game under 8GB of vram usage, especially for the steam deck.

Mopetar · Oct 22, 2024

psolord said:
Just to be clear, I have been arguing from the beginning, that gpu power is more important.

This is not the thread for that argument. You can go make that thread and complain when other posters derail it with discussions about VRAM limits.

Your inability to grasp this is why people are upset with you. You can insist that your arguments are in good faith, but if you expect anyone to believe that you're essentially also asking them to accept that you used intelligence as a dump stat during character creation given your complete inability to wrap your head around the arguments being presented here.

But supposing that everyone here did in fact agree with you that GFLOPs is the most important metric for a GPU, it still doesn't change the fact that 8 GB of VRAM is no longer sufficient for many games and resolutions and will make a powerful GPU lose a lot of performance or have degraded visuals.

There's just no getting around that and from your own arguments there isn't any point in the future where your mind will change. In five years you'll still be making the same arguments, but it won't just be a few newer titles where 8 GB is insufficient, but a majority of new titles.

Fanatical Meat · Oct 22, 2024

Buyer behavior can be so strange, I simply don’t get why someone is happy paying a premium price and happily accepting less.

Majcric · Oct 22, 2024

If anybody is interested iceberg tech has posted a new video on Youtube of the 3080 10gb vs. 3080 12gb regarding Vram.

FWIW, he didn't really think the extra 2 gb was worth it.

Shmee · Oct 22, 2024

Majcric said:
If anybody is interested iceberg tech has posted a new video on Youtube of the 3080 10gb vs. 3080 12gb regarding Vram.

FWIW, he didn't really think the extra 2 gb was worth it.

This is interesting, as the 3080 12GB has more going for it than 2GB more memory. It also has a lot more memory bandwidth due to larger bus width, making it a faster card, as well as additional cores. It should perform more closely to the 3080Ti. Obviously if it is priced too close to a 3080Ti, then it may not be worth getting over another card option.

blckgrffn · Oct 22, 2024

Shmee said:
This is interesting, as the 3080 12GB has more going for it than 2GB more memory. It also has a lot more memory bandwidth due to larger bus width, making it a faster card, as well as additional cores. It should perform more closely to the 3080Ti. Obviously if it is priced too close to a 3080Ti, then it may not be worth getting over another card option.

Yeah, I always saw it as the late release Ti equivalent. When EVGA was dumping them there was no reason to pay for the Ti.

However if had been running a 3080 10GB for like 18 months already you were getting a pretty similar experience. It would be like releasing a 4070 Super 16GB now.

8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

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