Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	12 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	8P + 16E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	36 MB ?	12 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

Saylick · Oct 23, 2024

If that gaming performance is true… big OOF.

Inb4 certain Xitter peeps say that the reduced gaming performance is okay because no one will play at 1080p with a 4080/4090.

PJVol · Oct 23, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
He posted it then removed. I wonder why

This maybe? )

although it’s odd that the Ultra 9 285K demands more than the Ryzen 9 9950X.

Sunaiac · Oct 23, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
He posted it then removed. I wonder why

Intel Core Ultra 285K, 265K, and 245K CPU Review

Intel has fixed some BIG problems, but at what cost?

overclock3d.net

That's... errr... not...
I hope that's some early ~~polish~~ I mean deep structural ... I mean...

That's worst than I could ever have imagined. I really hope some BIOS updates will improve things.

Kocicak · Oct 23, 2024

Wow, the heavy sandbags must have cracked the chip mosaic pretty badly.

Joe NYC · Oct 23, 2024

Oops:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849094895807709441

Sunaiac · Oct 23, 2024

OC3D removed the review.
I'm still in hard disbelief. That cannot be that bad, maybe power mode (balanced/perf/etc...) and early BIOS ?

I mean, it looks good compared to i9 11900k, but haven't they heard about that alien technology called 5800x3d ? Shouldn't have they aimed for that level of performance and power usage ?

gdansk · Oct 23, 2024

Wow... Even if games are scheduled incorrectly on the Skymont cores it should be better than that, right?

I guess we'll find out more tomorrow.

9949asd · Oct 23, 2024

ARL gaming is bad🤣I hope intel can make lag caches cpu ASAP. Otherwise will lose the market completely!

Sunaiac · Oct 23, 2024

gdansk said:
Wow... Even if games are scheduled incorrectly on the Skymont cores it should be better than that, right?

I guess we'll find out more tomorrow.

Factorio was by far the worst of the 5 or 6 games reviewed, for the rest it's in around Zen3 x3d or alder lake performance.

Josh128 · Oct 23, 2024

PJVol said:
This maybe? )

Demands more what? Power or brand loyalty?

cannedlake240 · Oct 23, 2024

gdansk said:
Wow... Even if games are scheduled incorrectly on the Skymont cores it should be better than that, right?

I guess we'll find out more tomorrow.

It's an E core... Why would it be faster than P core CPUs? It's clocked lower, has slower caches and gets the same slow memory

Josh128 · Oct 23, 2024

Sunaiac said:
Factorio was by far the worst of the 5 or 6 games reviewed, for the rest it's in around Zen3 x3d or alder lake performance.

So ~around Zen 4 vanilla? Interesting that Intel have run up into the same gaming bottlenecks now that AMD have been fighting since Zen 3.

igor_kavinski · Oct 23, 2024

I didn't have time to take any screenshots BUT

Here's what I wrote because I thought notes were needed

265K best in latency if going for Arrow Lake
13700K beats 265K in Blender 4K
CB R20 R23 R24 <<< 265K beats 14700K
Dolphin 5.0 13700K beats 285K (!!!)
i5-12400 DEMOLISHES 285K in Factorio!!!
Far Cry 6 13600K kicks 285K to the curb
285K falters massively in Guardians of Galaxy minimum fps and consequently humiliated by 5800X3D
13600K punches 285K in the nose in The Riftbreaker before the 285K has time to get up
13600K looks down at 285K in Total War Warhammer III and says "Learn your place, boy".
9700X asks 245K, "Why so SWEATY???"
9950X looks at 285K gulping down on power in OCCT and asks with disbelief, "What are you doing with that power despite being on N3B???"

gdansk · Oct 23, 2024

cannedlake240 said:
It's an E core... Why would it be faster than P core CPUs? It's clocked lower, has slower caches and gets the same slow memory

It's slower than a similarly clocked Zen 2 in that benchmark...

Sunaiac · Oct 23, 2024

Josh128 said:
So ~around Zen 4 vanilla? Interesting that Intel have run up into the same gaming bottlenecks now that AMD have been fighting since Zen 3.

Yeah, that's what my goldfish-like memory remembers of what I read 5 minutes ago 🙃
This has the best coverage :

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849090225592758278

Hitman928 · Oct 23, 2024

DAPUNISHER said:
Surprisingly, looks like Aussie Steve is going to be on all fours right next to J. He says he won't roast arrow the way he did Zen 5 because Intel didn't hype it up.

Hitman928 · Oct 23, 2024

Kocicak said:
Wow, the heavy sandbags must have cracked the chip mosaic pretty badly.

View attachment 110077

The sandbags turned out to actually be filled with helium.

Sunaiac · Oct 23, 2024

Videocardz had the review leaks, but removed them too
I hope it was a pre-review and numbers are better tomorrow.
Else it makes Zen 5's gains (for desktop PC usage) and marketing (compared to what it actually brought) the best thing ever.

Abwx · Oct 23, 2024

Lol, that was prophetic :

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848921334023061539

Kocicak · Oct 23, 2024

Anybody saved some other info? I should have something in the edge cache, but I do not know how to view it.

igor_kavinski · Oct 23, 2024

@Wolverine2349 , looks like Bartlett Lake is a go!

Hitman928 · Oct 23, 2024

Josh128 said:
So ~around Zen 4 vanilla? Interesting that Intel have run up into the same gaming bottlenecks now that AMD have been fighting since Zen 3.

Much worse. This has to be a firmware/software issue, right?

coercitiv · Oct 23, 2024

Hitman928 said:
This has to be a firmware/software issue, right?

Can I have ARL this Christmas?
No, we have ARL performance at home.

They better have a bug the size of Jupiter in that firmware.

gdansk · Oct 23, 2024

Hitman928 said:
Much worse. This has to be a firmware/software issue, right?

View attachment 110082

My theory is it is scheduling on the wrong core type. And maybe also not clocking appropriately...

Det0x · Oct 23, 2024

Seems like a pretty rushed/bad review
Many strange things in there

Why is the 5800x3d faster than the 7800x3d?
Why is the 14700K faster than the 14900KS?

Lots of minimum numbers also dont make sense...
Also the power doesn't look right to me. The Intel profile is 250/250W. The numbers seem to be measured for total system power but then it wouldnt make sense how the 285K draws 265W more than a 12400 that probably does ~60W under load. That would mean they had ~320-330W under load for the 285K

Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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