8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

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BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
2,997
126
8GB
Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.
Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:
Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

10GB / 12GB

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.
  1. It's the player's fault.
  2. It's the reviewer's fault.
  3. It's the developer's fault.
  4. It's AMD's fault.
  5. It's the game's fault.
  6. It's the driver's fault.
  7. It's a system configuration issue.
  8. Wrong settings were tested.
  9. Wrong area was tested.
  10. Wrong games were tested.
  11. 4K is irrelevant.
  12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
  13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
  14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
  15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
  16. It's an anomaly.
  17. It's a console port.
  18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
  19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
  20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
  21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.
According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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Majcric said:
If anybody is interested iceberg tech has posted a new video on Youtube of the 3080 10gb vs. 3080 12gb regarding Vram.

FWIW, he didn't really think the extra 2 gb was worth it.
Click to expand...
He tests for 5 minute runs it seems. Which is certainly much better than big review sites. But not enough for some games to hit the wall. He did note concerning play time, that more issues might surface with longer sessions, so good on him.

He uses a 7500f, and while it should have no real impact on vram limitations, I would like to have seen it with a faster CPU to keep things as GPU limited as possible.

A big selling point Nvidia pushes over those last gen cards is frame generation. It uses vram and that did not get tested. Even in his test run time, it may have exposed more issues. There were nevertheless, a few vram related problems in his small test suite.

His conclusion needed a caveat IMO. The 12GB model was a relatively pointless card released during the dark times and radically overpriced. However, if I was buying used today? I'd paid a bit of a premium over the older model. Why? The 12GB is already aging better than the 10GB. RE4 isn't, and won't be, the only game with texture issues that an extra 2GB will help with. Also, more importantly to me, it came late enough in the crypto craze to have not been used as a mining slave long at all.

I think the GTX 980 Tie is a good example of where a couple of extra GB of vram makes a difference. 6GB forces more compromises than 8GB in newer games.

8GB for $300- $400 is my personal sticking point for 40 series. And $500+ for 8GB last gen. It's that simple of a debate for me. I have read and seen nothing that would make me change my mind thus far. As some of us have written over the last 3yrs, GPU power is the red herring fallacy. Because regardless of what settings are necessary for an acceptable gaming experience on the 4060 tie 8 and 16 models, the model with more vram can use features like frame generation and higher textures when the other cannot.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,149
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Fanatical Meat said:
Buyer behavior can be so strange, I simply don’t get why someone is happy paying a premium price and happily accepting less.
Click to expand...

There are some people who pay stern sounding Asian women in leather corsets to tie them up and call them names while kicking them in the balls.

This is essentially the same thing, only a little less expensive. You do have to settle for an Asian dude in a leather jacket doing the kicking though.
 
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T

Timorous

Golden Member
Oct 27, 2008
1,775
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Mopetar said:
There are some people who pay stern sounding Asian women in leather corsets to tie them up and call them names while kicking them in the balls.

This is essentially the same thing, only a little less expensive. You do have to settle for an Asian dude in a leather jacket doing the kicking though.
Click to expand...

If the 5070Ti is $999 then I am not sure that it is less expensive.
 
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marees

Senior member
Apr 28, 2024
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639
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IEC said:
Daniel Owen does some testing on 2024 AAA titles and uses 4060 Ti 8GB and 16GB cards to keep it apples to apples:

Verdict:
8GB is stupid at 4K
8GB is increasingly running into issues at 1440p and is not recommended
8GB at 1080p requires settings compromises that drop it below intended graphical fidelity

tl;dw
Buy a 12GB+ card in order to play at the intended settings. 2024 AAA titles will not be playable at intended graphical settings with less.
Frame generation actually hurts performance on the 8GB card when enabled if already borderline in vRAM usage. If you want to use DLSS/FG tech you need the vRAM...
8GB is only okay on strict budget and/or if you only intend to play e-sports titles at competitive settings (e.g. 1080p low). Otherwise you are gimping yourself
Click to expand...
noted few key points:

  1. Ghost of Tsushima
    1. 0:00 Ghost of Tsushima 4K Very High - stuttery
    2. 4:35 Ghost of Tsushima 4K Very High DLSS P - 69 vs 39 avg & 62 vs 34 1%
    3. 5:58 Frame Generation uses more VRAM- Ghost of Tsushima 4K High DLSS Q FG - perf decreases for 8gb. 1% lows are 252% faster in 16gb
    4. 7:19 Ghost of Tsushima 1440p Very High DLSS Q FG - 16gb better
  2. Horizon Forbidden West
    1. 8:14 Horizon Forbidden West 4K Very High - 21% faster avg, 58% faster 1% lows. Spikes in 8gb
    2. 8:41 Horizon Forbidden West 4K Very High DLSS P - 16gb doubles perf from above, 8gb can't
    3. 9:10 Horizon Forbidden West 4K High - 9% faster avg, 39% faster 1%
    4. 9:36 Horizon Forbidden West 4K High DLSS P - 16gb reaches 63fps but 8gb struggles
    5. 10:03 Horizon Forbidden West 4K Medium DLSS P - 13% faster in 1% lows
    6. 10:30 Horizon Forbidden West 1440p Very High - 13% faster avg, 42% faater 1% lows
    7. 10:57 Horizon Forbidden West 1440p Very High DLSS Q - 80 vs 67 avg & 68 vs 42 1% low
    8. 12:08 Horizon Forbidden West 1080p Very High.- diff in performance
  3. Hellblade 2 (UE5 non-nvidia branch)
    1. 12:43 Hellblade 2 4K High - 8gb crippled
  4. Avatar 4K (engine streams diff texture quality for diff vram)
    1. 16:17 Avatar 4K High - 24 vs 19 1%
  5. Alan Wake 2
    1. 17:47 Alan Wake 2 4K High DLSS P - 8gb crushed
    2. 18:06 Alan Wake 2 4K Low DLSS P - 61 vs 49 avg, 45 vs 37 1%
    3. 18:29 Alan Wake 2 1440p RT High DLSS B - 17% avg, 35% 1%
    4. 18:56 Alan Wake 2 1440p RT High DLSS B FG - 57 vs 42 avg, 48 vs 33 1%
    5. 19:27 Alan Wake 2 1440p High - 10% better
    6. 19:47 Alan Wake 2 1440p High DLSS Q - 20% better
    7. 19:58 Alan Wake 2 1080p RT High DLSS Q - 17% faster 1%
    8. 20:13 Alan Wake 2 1080p RT High DLSS Q FG - 10% faster avg, 27% faster 1%
    9. 20:44 Alan Wake 2 1080p High - 10% better
  6. Resident Evil 4
    1. 21:02 Resident Evil 4 Remake 4K Max - 76% faster 1%, 17% faster avg, massive stutters
    2. 21:40 Resident Evil 4 1440p Max - 5 fps 1% massive stutters
    3. 22:23 Resident Evil 4 1080p Max - massive frametime spike in 1% lows
  7. Starfield
    1. 23:05 Starfield 4K Ultra DLSS P FG - 60% faster avg, 180% faster 1%
  8. Cyberpunk
    1. 24:26 Cyberpunk 2077 1440p RT Overdrive DLSS P - 6% faster avg, 14% faster 1% low
    2. 24:57 Cyberpunk 2077 1440p RT OVerdrive DLSS P FG - 56 vs 26 1% low. Massive spikes/stutters
    3. 25:23 Cyberpunk 2077 1080p RT Overdrive DLSS Q - 52 vs 42 avg, 44 vs 34 1% -
    4. 25:50 Cyberpunk 2077 1080p RT Overdrive DLSS Q FG - 58% better 1% lows
 
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marees

Senior member
Apr 28, 2024
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The state of FG on 8gb cards:
👇
marees said:
5:58 Frame Generation uses more VRAM- Ghost of Tsushima 4K High DLSS Q FG - perf decreases for 8gb. 1% lows are 252% faster in 16gb
Click to expand...

marees said:
18:56 Alan Wake 2 1440p RT High DLSS B FG - 57 vs 42 avg, 48 vs 33 1%
Click to expand...

marees said:
20:13 Alan Wake 2 1080p RT High DLSS Q FG - 10% faster avg, 27% faster 1%
Click to expand...

marees said:
23:05 Starfield 4K Ultra DLSS P FG - 60% faster avg, 180% faster 1%
Click to expand...

marees said:
24:57 Cyberpunk 2077 1440p RT OVerdrive DLSS P FG - 56 vs 26 1% low. Massive spikes/stutters
Click to expand...

marees said:
25:50 Cyberpunk 2077 1080p RT Overdrive DLSS Q FG - 58% better 1% lows
Click to expand...
 
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marees

Senior member
Apr 28, 2024
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What do you say for this @psolord

marees said:
Ghost of Tsushima 4K Very High DLSS P - 69 vs 39 avg & 62 vs 34 1%
Click to expand...

marees said:
Horizon Forbidden West 4K Very High DLSS P - 16gb doubles perf from above, 8gb can't
Click to expand...

marees said:
Horizon Forbidden West 4K High DLSS P - 16gb reaches 63fps but 8gb struggles
Click to expand...

marees said:
  1. Horizon Forbidden West 1440p Very High - 13% faster avg, 42% faater 1% lows
  2. 10:57 Horizon Forbidden West 1440p Very High DLSS Q - 80 vs 67 avg & 68 vs 42 1% low
Click to expand...

marees said:
Alan Wake 2 4K Low DLSS P - 61 vs 49 avg, 45 vs 37 1%
Click to expand...

marees said:
Alan Wake 2 1440p RT High DLSS B FG - 57 vs 42 avg, 48 vs 33 1%
Click to expand...
 
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M

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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If the 8 GB cards are only $200 and advertised as being for e-sport games that don't need as much VRAM I don't think most people would have an issue.

There are plenty of people that like to snag a low-end GPU for a HTPC that aren't going to need a lot of VRAM either.

The problem is that when products are being sold as something they're not. Unwitting customers share responsibility in their own poor choices, but shame on anyone passing off an 8 GB card as a mid-range product.
 
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J

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
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Mopetar said:
If the 8 GB cards are only $200 and advertised as being for e-sport games that don't need as much VRAM I don't think most people would have an issue.

There are plenty of people that like to snag a low-end GPU for a HTPC that aren't going to need a lot of VRAM either.

The problem is that when products are being sold as something they're not. Unwitting customers share responsibility in their own poor choices, but shame on anyone passing off an 8 GB card as a mid-range product.
Click to expand...

See your mistake is thinking $200 is mid range.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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jpiniero said:
See your mistake is thinking $200 is mid range.
Click to expand...

I don't for reasons such as inflation. $200 is now the new entry-level price with anything below that being left to APUs which themselves may not cost much more than that.

My problem is that the mid-range products that retail for $400 have an aspect of their hardware configuration like an entry-level product. Put 12 GB of VRAM on a $400 card and people aren't going to complain nearly as much.

Imagine someone making a 4090 but slapping on the cooler from a 4060 so that it's thermally constrained and can't make use of all the shaders or VRAM. People would rightly complain, but at least that's a problem some of them can fix. Soldering on new, higher capacity memory chips is outside of the capabilities of most consumers.
 
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Iron Woode

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 10, 1999
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jpiniero said:
See your mistake is thinking $200 is mid range.
Click to expand...
he never said that.

Mopetar said:
If the 8 GB cards are only $200 and advertised as being for e-sport games that don't need as much VRAM I don't think most people would have an issue.
Click to expand...
The keyword here is if - he never mentioned mid-range anything. Seems he was inferring those cards would be low-end.
 
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Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
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Mopetar said:
I don't for reasons such as inflation. $200 is now the new entry-level price with anything below that being left to APUs which themselves may not cost much more than that.
Click to expand...

It has more to do with supply/demand than inflation. The prices are outpacing inflation usually and even if not, given that we're talking about luxury goods the demand will drop drastically until prices lower. Inflation is hard to buy into when cpu prices have been fairly stable for 15 years now. $200 buys you a good mid range cpu that will last you 5 years on average.
 
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Mopetar

Diamond Member
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Ranulf said:
It has more to do with supply/demand than inflation. The prices are outpacing inflation usually and even if not, given that we're talking about luxury goods the demand will drop drastically until prices lower. Inflation is hard to buy into when cpu prices have been fairly stable for 15 years now. $200 buys you a good mid range cpu that will last you 5 years on average.
Click to expand...

That's also a factor, but CPUs last longer in gaming rigs because the GPU is typically the bottleneck for performance, especially at higher resolutions and settings. If you were running loads that are CPU-bound you might be upgrading that more frequently while keeping a much older GPU that is good enough to drive your displays.

CPUs also became smaller in the sense that they use chiplets now as opposed to monolithic dies which helps offset the increased costs of newer process nodes. If GPUs were able to move to a chiplet-based approach without losing any performance, we'd likely see cheaper cards as companies pass some of the cost savings on to consumers.

I'd also argue that the CPU market is more competitive. Both AMD and Intel have had competitive products in terms of performance which keeps prices down. The GPU market has not had consistent competition across all segments over the same period. RDNA2 was the only generation where AMD was competitive at the top in recent time. It's hard to say how much truth there is to the claim of absolute NVidia brand loyalty when it could just be a case of them just having the best card. A lot of people who had been buying Intel for years and years switched to an AMD CPU as soon as it was demonstrably better.
 
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