Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

Tigerick · Aug 22, 2022

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.

Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	12 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	8P + 16E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	36 MB ?	12 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake

As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

sl0519 · Oct 24, 2024

Some reviews are up already, mainly non-EN speaking medias.
Just use google translate.

功耗比锐龙7还低！Intel酷睿Ultra 9 285K首发评测：游戏性能一言难尽
Đánh giá Intel Core Ultra 5 245K: Cân bằng giữa giá thành và hiệu năng

Kepler_L2 · Oct 24, 2024

Gaming perf is weird

DZero · Oct 24, 2024

Intel pulled a Conroe Jump it seems and with their next in house node, seems that they are about to retake the crown. Still, since E core might be discarded, they should give the advancements to a minor maker like DM&P (taiwanese one)

511 · Oct 24, 2024

Kepler_L2 said:
Gaming perf is weird
View attachment 110194 View attachment 110195

It is just out of place feels weird

cebri1 · Oct 24, 2024

Kepler_L2 said:
Gaming perf is weird
View attachment 110194 View attachment 110195

I believe it’s latency, they mention they improved gaming performance by 3% by enabling a couple of optimization options.

Abwx · Oct 24, 2024

cebri1 said:
Performing well in MT.

View attachment 110183 View attachment 110184 View attachment 110185

Lol, in CB 2024 optimised for Intel, barely better in Povray that enable AVX2 only for Intel and of course CPU Z who definitively crippled AMD back in 2017, quite some "wins".

Hitman928 · Oct 24, 2024

Kepler_L2 said:
功耗比锐龙7还低！Intel酷睿Ultra 9 285K/5 245K首发评测：游戏性能一言难尽

一、前言：Intel首款采用Chiplets设计的桌面处理器或许是i9-14900KS为代表的酷睿第14代处理器的设计失误，让Intel的攻城狮至今心有余悸，代号为Arrow Lake的新一代桌面处理器酷睿Ultra 200S

news.mydrivers.com

Results are better than the last two, but still behind overall some of those results seem strangely GPU bound at 1080p with a 4090. Hopefully the picture gets clearer with higher quality reviews.

tsamolotoff · Oct 24, 2024

Kepler_L2 said:
Gaming perf is weird

CS2 probably bugged / GPU-bound benchmark, as x3d is typically 20-30% faster than non-x3d in this game. Also, 7600x somehow faster than 7950x which shouldn't happen with substantial frequency gap (I guess gamebar is broken / disabled).

SiliconFly · Oct 24, 2024

Hitman928 said:
You could call AMD's approach tiles and Intel's approach chiplets, there's no technical distinction that causes the different naming. AMD was first and called its approach chiplets. Intel followed and didn't want to be seen as copying AMD, so they called their approach tiles, that's it.

AMD employs older style chiplet interconnect. Physical wires connecting die-to-die routed thru the substrate itself. Intel employs more advanced packaging (stacking) where the chiplets sit on the interposer which in turn sits on top of the substrate itself. That is the technical distinction between the two imho.

vanplayer · Oct 24, 2024

Kepler_L2 said:
功耗比锐龙7还低！Intel酷睿Ultra 9 285K/5 245K首发评测：游戏性能一言难尽

一、前言：Intel首款采用Chiplets设计的桌面处理器或许是i9-14900KS为代表的酷睿第14代处理器的设计失误，让Intel的攻城狮至今心有余悸，代号为Arrow Lake的新一代桌面处理器酷睿Ultra 200S

news.mydrivers.com

They shut down E cores and gain 4% fps in gaming. WOW surprise! And still slower than 9700x (default 285k is 100% while 9700x is 107%).

Don't ask why there's no 9950x in gaming test.

For this reason, we specifically turned off E-Core in BIOS and retested the game results using 8 P-Cores. The average frame rate of 14 games can be increased by as much as 4%!

While Chadmont is so hyped then people are still forced to shut it down and only 8C8T P cores left. What a design, what a day.

MS_AT · Oct 24, 2024

Abwx said:
Lol, in CB 2024 optimised for Intel, barely better in Povray that enable AVX2 only for Intel and of course CPU Z who definitively crippled AMD back in 2017, quite some "wins".

I will be grateful if you could point out where Pov-ray enables AVX2 for Intel only. Here is the source code https://github.com/POV-Ray/povray. According to windows readme the official way to build is using Visual Studio 2015 that supports either SSE2 or AVX.

GTracing · Oct 24, 2024

vanplayer said:
They shut down E cores and gain 4% fps in gaming. WOW surprise! And still slower than 9700x (default 285k is 100% while 9700x is 107%).

Don't ask why there's no 9950x in gaming test.

While Chadmont is so hyped then people are still forced to shut it down and only 8C8T P cores left. What a design, what a day.

Honestly, a 4% performance drop from enabling the e cores doesn't sound bad at all to me. Hyperthreading has a similar performance hit, and Intel choosing e cores over hyperthreading gives consumers much more multithreaded performance for the dollar.

SolidQ · Oct 24, 2024

tsamolotoff said:
CS2 probably bugged / GPU-bound benchmark, as x3d is typically 20-30% faster than non-x3d in this game. Also, 7600x somehow faster than 7950x which shouldn't happen with substantial frequency gap (I guess gamebar is broken / disabled).

That strange test, because in every test i see X3D beat easily 14900k and every other CPU.

3months ago.

PJVol · Oct 24, 2024

This launch is Intel's Zen (1) moment )

9949asd · Oct 24, 2024

PJVol said:
This launch is Intel's Zen (1) moment )

Exactly

H433x0n · Oct 24, 2024

Abwx said:
Lol, in CB 2024 optimised for Intel, barely better in Povray that enable AVX2 only for Intel and of course CPU Z who definitively crippled AMD back in 2017, quite some "wins".

How about wait before you declare the results rigged? Who knows, Zen 5 might win and it won’t be rigged.

Josh128 · Oct 24, 2024

PJVol said:
This launch is Intel's Zen (1) moment )

So its a fantastic step forward for Intel that will build the foundation for a solid future then? When do actual Western reviews publish?

Abwx · Oct 24, 2024

MS_AT said:
I will be grateful if you could point out where Pov-ray enables AVX2 for Intel only. Here is the source code https://github.com/POV-Ray/povray. According to windows readme the official way to build is using Visual Studio 2015 that supports either SSE2 or AVX.

It was demonstrated by forum member MarkPost, he showed the difference before and after recompiling Povray to enable AVX2 for AMD, his numbers can be found somewhere in this forum.

H433x0n said:
How about wait before you declare the results rigged? Who knows, Zen 5 might win and it won’t be rigged.

It s documented that Povray use AVX2 only for Intel, and it s also documented that CPU Z crippled AMD since 2017, their excuse was that Zen was taking advantage of their bench because the 4 ALUs did execute very well some parts of the code, too well for their liking apparently, but i wont abund on this debate in this thread.

igor_kavinski · Oct 24, 2024

Josh128 said:
When do actual Western reviews publish?

Hopefully in 15 minutes.

tsamolotoff · Oct 24, 2024

SolidQ said:
3months ago.

In their case gamebar is also broken as 7950x3d should be on top if this list. I've recently tried to 'fix' it on my ages-old W10 setup and it's actually not that evident that it is broken (when it is actually broken), even reinstalling W10 on top of existing iinstallation did not fix it for me (but copying some files from the clean installation did)

Det0x · Oct 24, 2024

XOC R23 MT

lol they must have pushed so hard to try to beak 9950X's 60k

igor_kavinski · Oct 24, 2024

tsamolotoff said:
(but copying some files from the clean installation did)

Which files?

coercitiv · Oct 24, 2024

PJVol said:
This launch is Intel's Zen (1) moment )

9949asd said:
Exactly

FYI Zen 1 was monolithic on the mainstream consumer side.

MS_AT · Oct 24, 2024

Abwx said:
It was demonstrated by forum member MarkPost, he showed the difference before and after recompiling Povray to enable AVX2 for AMD, his numbers can be found somewhere in this forum.

I don't know what he compiled, but the problem with Visual Studio compiler is it doesn't have a notion of CPU architecture or vendor. Just instruction sets. I hope Mark will see this post and will join the discussion explaining what he did exactly.

Oh and for Skymont running in SSE mode is more beneficial than AVX if the SSE only binary is used to compare all CPUs. Just a detail.

Abwx said:
it s also documented that CPU Z crippled AMD since 2017, their excuse was that Zen was taking advantage of their bench because the 4 ALUs did execute very well some parts of the code, to well for their liking apparently, but i wont abund on this debate in this thread

Well, CPU-Z does a poor job as a benchmark, so it's results should be generally ignored either for Intel or AMD.

igor_kavinski · Oct 24, 2024

Det0x said:
lol they must have pushed so hard to try to beak 9950X's 60k

Temp at 4C

Intel's new campaign: "Arrow Lake. Best experienced in the nice cold outdoors of Siberia!"

Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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