Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

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Tigerick

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Apr 1, 2022
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As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

ModelCode-NameDateTDPNodeTilesMain TileCPULP E-CoreLLCGPUXe-cores
Core Ultra 100UMeteor LakeQ4 202315 - 57 WIntel 4 + N5 + N64tCPU2P + 8E212 MBIntel Graphics4
?Lunar LakeQ4 202417 - 30 WN3B + N62CPU + GPU & IMC4P + 4E012 MBArc8
?Panther LakeQ1 2026 ??Intel 18A + N3E3CPU + MC4P + 8E4?Arc12



Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Meteor LakeArrow Lake (N3B)Lunar LakePanther Lake
PlatformMobile H/U OnlyDesktop & Mobile H&HXMobile U OnlyMobile H
Process NodeIntel 4TSMC N3BTSMC N3BIntel 18A
DateQ4 2023Desktop-Q4-2024
H&HX-Q1-2025
Q4 2024Q1 2026 ?
Full Die6P + 8P8P + 16E4P + 4E4P + 8E
LLC24 MB36 MB ?12 MB?
tCPU66.48
tGPU44.45
SoC96.77
IOE44.45
Total252.15



Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake



As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)



 

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poke01

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Intel seems to be doing enough damage on its own to make that happen. Their 18A better be as promised. The other threat is ARM. I like x86 because of its backwards compatibility. Also the fact that it isn't a "walled garden".
A bit off topic but ARM isn't a walled garden. You can get ARM worksations from System76 with upgradeable CPUs/GPUs/RAM which run Linux. Its just no one cares about Windows on ARM because Qualcomm had an exclusivity period with MS. Apple's idea of ARM computer is different from others like System76.

In the future who knows a RISC-V/ARM core might be so powerful that even with a 20% emulation hit its still faster than then contemporary x86 designs.
 

CakeMonster

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2012
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I can understand Intel being in a challenging situation with their initial product on a re-design, and waiting for their own next node and higher prices at TSMC. But they better be able to iterate on this quite quickly and steadily to keep gamers interested.
 

RTX2080

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Jul 2, 2018
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Kocicak

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Jan 17, 2019
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I tested a power limited Arrow lake here:

 
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lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
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1.480 Vcore is in my opinion too much for Intel 7, much less a smaller node, under ambient for day-to-day use. You are practically begging for degradation. Everybody has a different opinion but I keep my 14900K under 1.3V and it's generally under 1.2V when under load.

This person got a great sample and is pushing it to the limit. It's great to show what ARL can do but not really useful for people that want to use these CPU's for longer than a few weeks.
From what I have seen online 1.4~1.5V (transient) is not an outlier. I think Ryzens do it, too.

But what I cannot get my head around is how 1.5V/250W is only reporting 80C max temp.
 

inf64

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Mar 11, 2011
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It looks like intel will be in the rear view mirror even after Panther Lake, especially in gaming. It's sad since this means AMD will be commanding the prices for their X3D parts which will be priced higher than most of us would like to see. It was a solid opportunity for intel after flopped Zen 5 launch, but they managed to out-flop AMD with this one.
 

mzocyteae

Junior Member
Dec 29, 2020
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A bit off topic but ARM isn't a walled garden. You can get ARM worksations from System76 with upgradeable CPUs/GPUs/RAM which run Linux. Its just no one cares about Windows on ARM because Qualcomm had an exclusivity period with MS. Apple's idea of ARM computer is different from others like System76.

In the future who knows a RISC-V/ARM core might be so powerful that even with a 20% emulation hit its still faster than then contemporary x86 designs.
Surely AmpereOne is not a walled garden, but it pretty much isn't a valid choice as a desktop/workstation:
1. Low availability - few MB choice and retailers despite the cpus are launched long ago.
2. High cost - list price is way too expensive when comparing to msdt; total system cost won't be much better than epyc.
3. Questionable performance: lack of review (and MT/power is not promising); doomed ST; lack of cpu 2017 submission.
4. win32/linux binary support: some oss projects exists, but in they definitely can't do as well as wine or vmware workstation.
Maybe 1 & 3 will get better in the future, but 2 & 4 is unlikely.
 

majord

Senior member
Jul 26, 2015
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It looks like intel will be in the rear view mirror even after Panther Lake, especially in gaming. It's sad since this means AMD will be commanding the prices for their X3D parts which will be priced higher than most of us would like to see. It was a solid opportunity for intel after flopped Zen 5 launch, but they managed to out-flop AMD with this one.

but I thought AMD were " never again to be in the windshield" :
 

poke01

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2022
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I tested a power limited Arrow lake here:

whats more interesting, is your username over at TPU.

I love it lol
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
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265K is the more desirable part anyway isn't it?
And should be easier to bin.
I do not think that word means what you think it means. In retail it is going to collect dust with the Zen 5 parts. All these latest generations from the IHVs have done is help sell the older SKUs. Going to take a significant price drop to move them. It would also be a BIG help if Intel would confirm 1851 isn't one and done.
 

poke01

Platinum Member
Mar 8, 2022
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Interview with David Huang.

these answers are interesting:

Q: I have a question. In the Luna Lake performance review posted a month ago, the Luna Lake 258V was about 12% faster than the Meteo Lake using the same clock speed Redwood Cove. But why did Arrow Lake only improve by about 2% compared to the previous work? Shouldn't Arrow Lake show better performance than Luna Lake in terms of IPC? Can you explain the reason to me?

A: Luna Lake's L3 latency is much better than this.

Q: In the case of Luna Lake, is IPC better because the L3 latency is much lower than Arrow Lake? However, I personally don't understand that the IPC improvement is only 2% compared to the previous work when considering the expansion of the interior of Arrow Lake's architecture.

A: The L3 latency of Luna Lake and Rapter Lake is about 55 cycles, while Arrow Lake (265K) is about 73 cycles and Meteo Lake (155H) is 80 cycles.

Q: I wonder how the result came out with such a low result. And why does Arrow Lake perform well on benchmarks like Cinebench R23/R24 or Geekbench?

A:Cinebench and Geekbench are mostly executed within the L2 cache. SPEC is generally much more sensitive to cache and memory.
 

tsamolotoff

Senior member
May 19, 2019
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is this even explicable? )
There can be wildly different results depending on the test used, i.e. there is a popular canned benchmark in the steam workshop that many reviewers use which shows high FPS for almost any CPU and is basically a gpu benchmark while others (i2hard for example) use real-world demo files that were recorded during WGL championships or other high-ranking events where _sometimes_ CPU is more of a limit. Also, CS2 unlike CSGO has some particle effects processed via GPU now so the FPS lows might be actually caused by GPU, not CPU now. Also, if you use several monitors DWM sometimes breaks down and this tanks your FPS considerably as Windows attempts to sync game with DWM which leads to characteristic 'saw line' frametime which can easily noticed when you do tests manually, but it naturally would pass unnoticed while using automated benchmark tools.
 
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