That would be a REALLY, REALLY bad precedent!Maybe for a couple of weeks AMD should just not set a price and auction all units on their website to the highest bidders. 😜
It usually happens on its own, I remember how I've tried to buy 3900x and 5900x on launch, they were simply not available in any reasonable quantities on newegg/amazon or the local retailers. Once I've even managed to place order on 6800xt but it was cancelled by our local e-tailer because of too many bids etc. Shortly after that a guy affiliated with this shop offered to sell me another reference 6800xt for 20% markup (and considering that mining came in few months, that would be a great deal, lol).Maybe for a couple of weeks AMD should just not set a price and auction all units on their website to the highest bidders. 😜
That's true, with high in demand stuff this tends to happen naturally. But whenever that happens it's not the manufacturers profiting off of it but scalpers.It usually happens on its own, I remember how I've tried to buy 3900x and 5900x on launch, they were simply not available in any reasonable quantities on newegg/amazon or the local retailers. Once I've even managed to place order on 6800xt but it was cancelled by our local e-tailer because of too many bids etc. Shortly after that a guy affiliated with this shop offered to sell me another reference 6800xt for 20% markup (and considering that mining came in few months, that would be a great deal, lol).
Nevermind the scalpers; MSRP won't matter if retailers are price gouging as they are with Zen 4 3D due to demand. It is no different than Nvidia, gamers will queue to buy the best hardware overpriced though it may be. It is the first unlocked 3D, that alone justifies a premium over last gen. That anyone tries to hold AMD to a different standard is cognitive dissonance.Even if they price them at $449, they will quickly run out of stock. Probably a lot of pissed Intel users out there who were patiently waiting for Arrow Lake, saw how bad it is at gaming and decided they will switch to AMD.
What??? That's solid proof that he wanted to show Arrow Lake in a good light!And how is no one railing TPU for testing AMD with 23H2? That makes his whole review a joke. And his proofreader is the biggest Intel shill around. Half convinced he is the loserbenchmark guy. 🤣
Despite Steve trying hard to shake the stigma of being AMD Unboxed via the months long overly negative AMD content; his review methodology is damned good. If he was AMD biased as the reality distortion field gang on TPU and some reddit subs claim, he'd have tested arrow with 24H2 and said too bad so sad. No special testing conditions on day one reviews. It has to work properly OOB with defaults. Both Steves have the best bigger bar better reviews I've seen. Aussie Steve trying to put lipstick on the pig is where he showed his ass. Others running canned benchmarks or areas of games with low CPU demand are either lazy or shilling or both.What??? That's solid proof that he wanted to show Arrow Lake in a good light!
What's the best review of Arrow you've read so far, where AMD isn't purposely held back?
It's almost loserbenchmark levels. And he never stopped recommending rapture lake through the whole FUBAR mess. "Guyz just buy a cheaper CPU for gaming. And now I will pimp the worst CPU generation of all time and never mention it is a dead platform that when you go to sell it, will be about as popular as moldy pizza on the used market " Keep trying to pick that turd up by the clean end then polish it.Compared to last generation's Raptor Lake 14900K, the Ultra 9 285K is around 5% slower at 1080p, 1.5% at 4K. AMD's Zen 5 offers roughly the same performance, but AMD has the X3D ace up their sleeves. The 7800X3D remains the undisputed best gaming processor in the world, and the 9800X3D is launching very soon, too—unless AMD f'ed that up big time I am sure that it will take the gaming crown. Do consider these FPS differences though—5%—not much. At 100 FPS that's 5 FPS more—subjectively, you'll never notice any difference between these processors. They are all very good for gaming, and you should probably look at options with pricing in mind, too. Ryzen 9600X ($250), 7700X ($280), 14600K ($260), 13700K ($280) are all competitively priced with lots of choice in the segment—around $200 cheaper than the 7800X3D ($470), and I'm sure that AMD will make you pay for the 9800X3D.
Oof, I was going to mention how the fix was backported to 23H2 in an optional update, but comparing TPUs 285k review against their 9700x review, I don't think they're using it. The gap between the 14900k and 7800X3D is practically the same in both: 3.5% at 1080p. Much smaller than the gap between the two CPUs in Hardware Unboxed's 285k review: 14% at 1080p.And how is no one railing TPU for testing AMD with 23H2? That makes his whole review a joke. And his proofreader is the biggest Intel shill around. Half convinced he is the loserbenchmark guy. 🤣
If you look at their GPU benchmark, it is obvious they don't retest GPUs at all with newer drivers and almost never update old data, so this is why, most probably. That's why I always disregard their results (although it looks like some people I know like their barcharts so much that they trust them despite knowing that their testing methodology isn't really flawlessAnd how is no one railing TPU for testing AMD with 23H2? That makes his whole review a joke.
If you change platform, you need to retest everything = lotsa work Same happened when Zen3 was released and they've still used something like 2070 or 2080 for CPU tests which's lead to situation in which all CPUs performed the same (aka GPU bottleneck) . Even TPU forum crowd noticed that, Wizzard got very upset (if not even b-hurt) and put a disclaimer on his next review with something like "zen3 is overpriced, don't buy it"How is he going to justify using Raptor as his test platform for GPUs when the 9800X3D hits
If I could get knowledge of the launch quick enough, I should by 5-10 before prices go sky high, then sell them to AT people at cost+shipping !Even if they price them at $449, they will quickly run out of stock. Probably a lot of pissed Intel users out there who were patiently waiting for Arrow Lake, saw how bad it is at gaming and decided they will switch to AMD.
You need to buy at least 100If I could get knowledge of the launch quick enough, I should by 5-10 before prices go sky high, then sell them to AT people at cost+shipping !
That's the job. Put in the work or expect to take heat. It's also a lame excuse. He held out long enough waiting for Intel to provide him with a better gaming CPU. The results are sad trombone music, so either switch to 3D or lose more credibility.If you look at their GPU benchmark, it is obvious they don't retest GPUs at all with newer drivers and almost never update old data, so this is why, most probably. That's why I always disregard their results (although it looks like some people I know like their barcharts so much that they trust them despite knowing that their testing methodology isn't really flawless
If you change platform, you need to retest everything = lotsa work Same happened when Zen3 was released and they've still used something like 2070 or 2080 for CPU tests which's lead to situation in which all CPUs performed the same (aka GPU bottleneck) . Even TPU forum crowd noticed that, Wizzard got very upset (if not even b-hurt) and put a disclaimer on his next review with something like "zen3 is overpriced, don't buy it"
LMAO at his Zen 3 advice, did he seriously do the
TPU said:After a lot of testing even I can confirm what other reviewers have reported during the Zen 3 launch: AMD has beaten Intel in gaming performance, but only in a best-case scenario, using fast memory and with the latest graphics architecture.
I doubt I'll pick DDR4-3800 or 4000 just because AMD runs faster with it—guess I'll still get flak from the AMD fanboys.
It is .2ghz up from previous gen and base clocks are also significantly up.From reddit: 9800x3D specifications appear on german price comparison website
Full specs:
So 5.2 max boost is pretty much confirmed. If thermal restraint was lifted, why is boost still .3 Ghz down from non V-cache model??
It isn’t getting wider/slower. The next few gens will focus on another round of optimization, and some IO related stuff as well (among other things).If Zen continues to get wider and slower, than I can see them using the reduced clockspeed targets to double the size of the L2 while keeping the same number of cycles of latency. That should help with throughput a bit.
The next iteration of cache die will likely be on TSMC N4C as SRAM scaling falls off a cliff after N5, and won't really recover another increment of shrinking until BSPD and GAA get applied to it, which is going to be a few years after those things are in volume in the core dies as they will be very expensive processes on a per wafer basis. N4C should allow a bit of a shrink, especially if it's a cache targeted chip design, while allowing better performance/power curves. If the CCD stays roughly it's current size, then they could likely fit more cache on the cache die, so a 50-100% increase wouldn't be unreasonable. It's possible that they may decouple it into an L4 cache to allow the first 32MB of L3 to have a lower latency, at the expense of a few extra cycles of RAM latency.
…or they could be like me. 24H2 has not been offered to me via Windows Update as of today and I just reinstalled Windows just before the update was finalized.Oof, I was going to mention how the fix was backported to 23H2 in an optional update, but comparing TPUs 285k review against their 9700x review, I don't think they're using it. The gap between the 14900k and 7800X3D is practically the same in both: 3.5% at 1080p. Much smaller than the gap between the two CPUs in Hardware Unboxed's 285k review: 14% at 1080p.
…or they could be like me. 24H2 has not been offered to me via Windows Update as of today and I just reinstalled Windows just before the update was finalized.
A good reviewer uses a disk image anyway, and that image would need to be rebuilt to incorporate 24H2.
The most disingenuous part is that EVERYONE knows you take IHV performance claims with a truck load of salt. Yet they all did the surprised Pikachu and went HAM this time. Hidden agenda much? Never forget the Principled Technologies debacle.@DAPUNISHER
You mean reviewers aren't going to be making multiple videos about how Intel lied because their performance doesn't match their marketing slides
He ran it originally on 24H2 but then reverted to 23H2 because of the issues with ARL.
Could be, but they should have access to that optional update for 23H2 even if they can't get 24H2. At the very least they should mentioned the bugfix somewhere in the review.…or they could be like me. 24H2 has not been offered to me via Windows Update as of today and I just reinstalled Windows just before the update was finalized.
A good reviewer uses a disk image anyway, and that image would need to be rebuilt to incorporate 24H2.
With the pent-up demand due to utter failure of Arrow Lake as a viable gaming upgrade for literally anyone outside of Intel fanatics still rocking Comet or Rocket(!) Lake, AND the possibility of limited stock and thus scalping, AND the fact that increasingly appears that Zen 5 X3D will distinguish itself with the largest gaming margin win vs Intel since Alder Lake vs vanilla Zen 3, I wouldnt put it past AMD to try and slap a $479 USD price tag on it. Why let scalpers milk when AMD can milk instead??Nevermind the scalpers; MSRP won't matter if retailers are price gouging as they are with Zen 4 3D due to demand. It is no different than Nvidia, gamers will queue to buy the best hardware overpriced though it may be. It is the first unlocked 3D, that alone justifies a premium over last gen. That anyone tries to hold AMD to a different standard is cognitive dissonance.