Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
6,094
1,203
126
You know how the Russian govt and Republicans are the same - they are equally silly in the things they do:


(that is greater than the world gdp for what - for blocking Russian fiction on youtube.... (doesn't that remind you of the republicans ?)
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,294
30,315
146
This always brings a smile to my face: Ukraine hitting those drunk assholes where it rrreally hurts.

"Four different distilleries in Russia were targeted by Ukrainian drones early Tuesday. It was the largest attack on Russia's alcohol production facilities to date. The plants also supply fuel used in the ongoing war—while a combined heat and power plant and synthetic rubber plant were also targeted in the strike."

Some people might argue letting them stay drunk would work better. I think I'd rather see rampant withdrawal symptoms through their ranks, should pair well with the 3 Day War morale. I bet there's a spike in officers getting killed by their own guys. That the plants also produce fuels for things is just a bonus.

Time to start drinking tank brake fluid Yuri, shouldn't make you that blind.

forcing the entire RU army and, well, the entire population of Russia into bouts of dillerium tremens might be considered chemical or Biological warfare by the Geneva Conventions?
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
49,018
39,130
136
You know how the Russian govt and Republicans are the same - they are equally silly in the things they do:


(that is greater than the world gdp for what - for blocking Russian fiction on youtube.... (doesn't that remind you of the republicans ?)

If that's in rubles I can probably find it in my couch.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,294
30,315
146
If that's in rubles I can probably find it in my couch.
I actually have one of these somewhere.



I forget where I put it, though.

I bet a bunch of us have or have had these at some point. Hey! Maybe if we all pull together, we can mail our stash to the Russian government and pay off the fine on google's behalf?
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,143
7,653
136
Is it really the USA's concern about handing to Putin our latest weapons tech that we're being so stingy with what the AFU could really use against the RU invaders or is it more a political calculus problem we're dealing with? Both maybe?

It reminds me so much of how our troops in Vietnam had to suffer unnecessary casualties from those politically motivated rules of engagement that hamstrung us so badly in that war. Not that those rules seemed to be more like suggestions when it came right down to who gets to live or die in any given situation on any given day.
 
Last edited:

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
6,094
1,203
126
Is it really the USA's concern about handing to Putin our latest weapons tech that we're being so stingy with what the AFU could really use against the RU invaders or is it more a political calculus problem we're dealing with? Both maybe?

It reminds me so much of how our troops in Vietnam had to suffer unnecessary casualties from those politically motivated rules of engagement that hamstrung us so badly in that war. Not that those rules seemed to be more like suggestions when it came right down to who gets to live or die in any given situation on any given day.
My crude understanding is there is some fear russia will use nukes in Ukraine if pushed too far.
 

gorobei

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2007
3,790
1,239
136
Is it really the USA's concern about handing to Putin our latest weapons tech that we're being so stingy with what the AFU could really use against the RU invaders or is it more a political calculus problem we're dealing with? Both maybe?

It reminds me so much of how our troops in Vietnam had to suffer unnecessary casualties from those politically motivated rules of engagement that hamstrung us so badly in that war. Not that those rules seemed to be more like suggestions when it came right down to who gets to live or die in any given situation on any given day.
i've come across a ton of pundit theories regarding US hesitancy to fully supply UKR, the premises depend on the timeline to some degree.

at the start of the war the worry was that UKR forces would fold and be overrun, Zelenskyy would flee; so there was no point in sending them anything other than javelins and stingers for the guerrilla anti-occupation fighting. when the AFU held and the rus army proved to be a paper tiger, the himars were sent. with the slow roll on MBT tanks and gen4 jets, it took EU allies being the first to donate to get US gear unlocked. short and medium range tactical ballistic missiles or air launch missiles only got sent after the stalemate of the failed 2023 counter offensive.

the more common explanation was that there was no point in sending the big stuff as UKR didnt have the support equipment and trained personnel, so just send what they can use with few weeks of instruction.

this morphed into not sending anything that could be construed as nato participating in the war and somehow invoking the self-defense clause in the rus nuke usage rules or full mobilization/conscription.

the redlines on taking crimea or donbass, nato weapons used on sevastopol, the crimean bridge; all came and went with no response so there is this strange paranoia on what line will make putler go yolo.

  • some think the US is trying to go slow enough to just bleed rus dry into economic collapse like the soviet union did in the 90's.
  • some think they are trying to craft an exit strategy where putler steps down and someone else who is rational can step in keeping the system functional so the nukes dont go flying off to the highest bidder. this would require a ton of setup work by the cia and thus a slow time consuming process to make sure a non-hardliner is in place to take over.
  • some think that if putler can get something that looks like NATO involvement, he can spin it to the russians as a full attack by the west so they will mobilize and can authorize nukes. NATO could probably wipe out the russian military in 3 weeks(probably 2weeks just getting the troops the border) which would force putler into a no win situation where he might as well nuke everyone so that nobody wins.

the captured weapons tech only comes into play if it is something the US think they will need to use against china. there are a bunch of new weapons that will have a real edge over the pla stuff but they still need to be fully tested and de-bugged. they may be ready by 2028(xi's original target date for reclaiming Taiwan), so if you can only fight with what you have then it is prudent not to let the current stuff we know works fall into rus/china hands.

to some degree it may be a hedge on the election, starting to supply the long range weapons in 2024 and then having turdrump cancel them could be disasterous to any 2025 counter offensive.

[it is funny but Beau of the 5th at the very start of the war put out a video saying that he could see the US doing only just enough to keep UKR in the fight to try and deplete/bleed out rus. in light of UKR success in summer 2022 it seemed like an odd call, but here we are looking at 2025 as the possible year rus runs out of tanks/arty/rockets in the storage yards.]
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,143
7,653
136
My crude understanding is there is some fear russia will use nukes in Ukraine if pushed too far.

Your post led me to a thought about the democracies of the world organizing an independent non-aligned army somewhat similar to the Wagner Group that Putin deployed at the beginning of his three day SMO in Ukraine.

Surely if Putin could do such a thing wouldn't it be embarrassingly humiliating for him if he and his generals whined about the allied democracies doing the same thing? It would surely give China and Hungary's Orbán a scare to see just how organized and supportive the free democracies of the world can be.

Would it push Putin to cross that line he's been threatening NATO with? Who could ever know how desperate he would become should the tides turn so overwhelmingly against him.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,143
7,653
136
i've come across a ton of pundit theories regarding US hesitancy to fully supply UKR, the premises depend on the timeline to some degree.

at the start of the war the worry was that UKR forces would fold and be overrun, Zelenskyy would flee; so there was no point in sending them anything other than javelins and stingers for the guerrilla anti-occupation fighting. when the AFU held and the rus army proved to be a paper tiger, the himars were sent. with the slow roll on MBT tanks and gen4 jets, it took EU allies being the first to donate to get US gear unlocked. short and medium range tactical ballistic missiles or air launch missiles only got sent after the stalemate of the failed 2023 counter offensive.

the more common explanation was that there was no point in sending the big stuff as UKR didnt have the support equipment and trained personnel, so just send what they can use with few weeks of instruction.

this morphed into not sending anything that could be construed as nato participating in the war and somehow invoking the self-defense clause in the rus nuke usage rules or full mobilization/conscription.

the redlines on taking crimea or donbass, nato weapons used on sevastopol, the crimean bridge; all came and went with no response so there is this strange paranoia on what line will make putler go yolo.

  • some think the US is trying to go slow enough to just bleed rus dry into economic collapse like the soviet union did in the 90's.
  • some think they are trying to craft an exit strategy where putler steps down and someone else who is rational can step in keeping the system functional so the nukes dont go flying off to the highest bidder. this would require a ton of setup work by the cia and thus a slow time consuming process to make sure a non-hardliner is in place to take over.
  • some think that if putler can get something that looks like NATO involvement, he can spin it to the russians as a full attack by the west so they will mobilize and can authorize nukes. NATO could probably wipe out the russian military in 3 weeks(probably 2weeks just getting the troops the border) which would force putler into a no win situation where he might as well nuke everyone so that nobody wins.

the captured weapons tech only comes into play if it is something the US think they will need to use against china. there are a bunch of new weapons that will have a real edge over the pla stuff but they still need to be fully tested and de-bugged. they may be ready by 2028(xi's original target date for reclaiming Taiwan), so if you can only fight with what you have then it is prudent not to let the current stuff we know works fall into rus/china hands.

to some degree it may be a hedge on the election, starting to supply the long range weapons in 2024 and then having turdrump cancel them could be disasterous to any 2025 counter offensive.

[it is funny but Beau of the 5th at the very start of the war put out a video saying that he could see the US doing only just enough to keep UKR in the fight to try and deplete/bleed out rus. in light of UKR success in summer 2022 it seemed like an odd call, but here we are looking at 2025 as the possible year rus runs out of tanks/arty/rockets in the storage yards.]

Looks like a lot of the beating and bleeding the AFU is taking and their ability to hold out long enough to make the arduous long game strategy work is the determining factor in all of this.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,255
8,300
136
Looks like a lot of the beating and bleeding the AFU is taking and their ability to hold out long enough to make the arduous long game strategy work is the determining factor in all of this.
It would help if we actually armed them.
Promises and even allocations don't seem to match the material we actually send. By 9 to 1.
We are keeping Ukraine under equipped.

Ukraine has received only 10% of the aid package approved by the U.S. Congress in 2024. This isn’t funny. The issue isn’t money, it’s bureaucracy and logistics,” Zelensky said.


 
Reactions: hal2kilo
Nov 17, 2019
12,716
7,713
136
Joe has had to walk a fine line with 'Pubs in the House, a narrow lead in the Senate and a contentious campaign. Not to mention the swaying tides in EU elections which could affect support and NATO.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
49,018
39,130
136

Young Grasshopper

Senior member
Nov 9, 2007
975
343
136
It would help if we actually armed them.
Promises and even allocations don't seem to match the material we actually send. By 9 to 1.
We are keeping Ukraine under equipped.

Ukraine has received only 10% of the aid package approved by the U.S. Congress in 2024. This isn’t funny. The issue isn’t money, it’s bureaucracy and logistics,” Zelensky said.



The US is being demilitarized by the Russians, which is why they are unable to supply Ukraine with what it needs.

I know many people here WANT to believe the equipment is just sitting in warehouses but isn’t being sent due to political reason. Of course, the REAL reason to the US has sent all it can and is unable to scale up to meet demand. This is what happens when you have a defense industry that is privatized. Gotta wait for congressional approval/bidding/procurement/legal/etc….

Meanwhile in good old Russia, whatever is needed is built quickly and whatever is lost is replaced quickly. That’s how it works when the government is in control of its defense industry.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
86,098
51,665
136
The US is being demilitarized by the Russians, which is why they are unable to supply Ukraine with what it needs.

I know many people here WANT to believe the equipment is just sitting in warehouses but isn’t being sent due to political reason. Of course, the REAL reason to the US has sent all it can and is unable to scale up to meet demand. This is what happens when you have a defense industry that is privatized. Gotta wait for congressional approval/bidding/procurement/legal/etc….

Meanwhile in good old Russia, whatever is needed is built quickly and whatever is lost is replaced quickly. That’s how it works when the government is in control of its defense industry.
There is no way you are actually this stupid. The problem here is you lie too transparently. You know Russia is a degenerate state as well as I do. It’s pathetic.

You won’t answer this but I will ask anyway. Do you actually believe in a conventional war Russia could defeat the US? Actually, forget winning. Do you think Russia could not be entirely annihilated?

Be as long or as short as you want.
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
6,085
2,455
136
Russia is being depopulated by Ukraine. This is why they are unable to overwhelmingly crush Ukraine.

I know many people not here WANT to believe that Russia is winning, and they got tons of troops ready to go, but isn't being sent due to political reasons. Of course the REAL reason is that Ukraine has been chopping down Russian troops like shooting fish in a barrel. This is what happens when you have a shitty army that is woefully under prepared and under equipped that is delusional enough to believe that Ukraine will roll over in 3 days, but the war will have been going on for 3 years soon.

Meanwhile, in good old USA, we have personal freedoms, including the right for some idiots to post bullshit. That's how it works when you have freedom of speech, unlike Russia where you can be jailed for farting too loud.
 

jdubs03

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2013
1,079
746
136
There is no way you are actually this stupid. The problem here is you lie too transparently. You know Russia is a degenerate state as well as I do. It’s pathetic.

You won’t answer this but I will ask anyway. Do you actually believe in a conventional war Russia could defeat the US? Actually, forget winning. Do you think Russia could not be entirely annihilated?

Be as long or as short as you want.
I had to do a double take about that lol. I was like “wait what are you on about”.

Anyone who thinks that Russia stands a chance are deluding themselves. Every single S-400/300, etc. site would be knocked out within hours to days. We would have air superiority where our B2s/21s would bomb away. Our F35s would buzz around unimpeded and our F22s would smash anything they could put in the air. Overmatch in every possible way. The only real thing protecting them is their nuclear weapons stockpile.
 
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