Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

Eug · Nov 10, 2020

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:

M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

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M1 Ultra discussion here:

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M2 discussion here:

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Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

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M4 Family discussion here:

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Eug · Oct 31, 2024

Eug said:
In my case, it turned out 10 GigE would have meant a 2 week delay so it solidified decision not to get it. I don't have ANY equipment above Gigabit anyway.

View attachment 110625

This Canadian edu order is CA$1394, which is currently US$969.69. For edu in the US, it's US$1079, or about 11% more expensive.

Regular retail in Canada is CA$1549 (US$1113.46) or US$1199 in the US, about 8% more expensive.

My internet service provider is now giving me a modem with 2.5 Gbps. So I caved and upgraded the Mac mini to 10 GigE. Apparently my CAT5e should be able to support 5 Gbps, and if not, definitely 2.5 Gbps.

That $1506.50 is, or about US$1082.76. US edu pricing is $1169, or about 8% more.

poke01 · Oct 31, 2024

s

Eug said:
My internet service provider is now giving me a modem with 2.5 Gbps. So I caved and upgraded the Mac mini to 10 GigE. Apparently my CAT5e should be able to support 5 Gbps, and if not, definitely 2.5 Gbps.

View attachment 110699

That $1506.50 is, or about US$1082.76. US edu pricing is $1169, or about 8% more.

This time around Macs are cheaper everywhere. It’s the same in Australia, cheaper than M3. Especially the Macbook Pros. Apple went overboard with M3 and finally came to senses and prices are much more reasonable, even retail ones.

For example, 14” MacBook M3 8GB costed $2699. Now it’s $2499 with M4 16GB and Thunderbolt 4. The M3 generation sucked in terms of pricing. EDU discount brings it $2225 or 10% off sales which are common at JB-Hi-Fi, $2250. Much better than any Lunar Lake laptop. Apple will sell a lot these MacBooks and even the base Mac minis over the holidays.

Glo. · Oct 31, 2024

Why is upgrade from M4 Mac Mini with 24 GB and 512 GB to M4 Pro Mac mini with the same amount of RAM and SSD costing 400$, but upgrade from M4 MBP with 24 GB RAM, and 512 GD SSD to M4 Pro MBP with the same amount of RAM and SSD only 200$ extra?

Doug S · Oct 31, 2024

Saw a link to an interesting bit of speculation about the M4P/M4M business

He makes a compelling argument that based on the diagrams Apple provided (which as he says have been truthful about the important details even if they aren't die photos) that M4P is two clusters of 5, and M4M is three clusters of 4.

He's convinced me, that's where I'd place my money if I had to bet. Obviously implies separate dies if Apple's diagrams continue to be truthful.

jdubs03 · Oct 31, 2024

Eug said:
My internet service provider is now giving me a modem with 2.5 Gbps. So I caved and upgraded the Mac mini to 10 GigE. Apparently my CAT5e should be able to support 5 Gbps, and if not, definitely 2.5 Gbps.

View attachment 110699

That $1506.50 is, or about US$1082.76. US edu pricing is $1169, or about 8% more.

This is quite a compelling spec. I’m more on the fence than ever about this is exact setup.

My main issues:
-my monitors and keyboard are usb type a (I know.. adapter).
- I’m HDMI’d into my TV.

StinkyPinky · Oct 31, 2024

Glo. said:
Why is upgrade from M4 Mac Mini with 24 GB and 512 GB to M4 Pro Mac mini with the same amount of RAM and SSD costing 400$, but upgrade from M4 MBP with 24 GB RAM, and 512 GD SSD to M4 Pro MBP with the same amount of RAM and SSD only 200$ extra?

I don't see this at all. In fact, there is no cpu upgrade options on the M4 minis on the US website.

Eug · Oct 31, 2024

Glo. said:
Why is upgrade from M4 Mac Mini with 24 GB and 512 GB to M4 Pro Mac mini with the same amount of RAM and SSD costing 400$, but upgrade from M4 MBP with 24 GB RAM, and 512 GD SSD to M4 Pro MBP with the same amount of RAM and SSD only 200$ extra?

StinkyPinky said:
I don't see this at all. In fact, there is no cpu upgrade options on the M4 minis on the US website.

Apple's pre-order page has completely separate order options for the M4 and M4 Pro Mac mini. You can't actually "upgrade" from M4 to M4 Pro. You have to choose the M4 Pro up front to configure it.

For the Mac mini:

M4 / 24 GB / 512 GB is US$999 (or $899 edu)
M4 Pro / 24 GB / 512 GB is US$1399 (or $1299 edu)

For the 14" MacBook Pro:

M4 / 24 GB / 512 GB is US$1799 (or $1699 edu)
M4 Pro / 24 GB / 512 GB is US$1999 (or $1849 edu)

I think they just want to keep the pricing high on the M4 Pro Mac mini to justify keeping next year's M4 Max Mac Studio pricing high too. Cuz if the M4 Pro Mac mini were only US$200 more, I probably would have bought it, even though I don't need it.

Glo. · Oct 31, 2024

Eug said:
I think they just want to keep the pricing high on the M4 Pro Mac mini to justify keeping next year's M4 Max Mac Studio pricing high too. Cuz if the M4 Pro Mac mini were only US$200 more, I probably would have bought it, even though I don't need it.

IMO, Apple just wanted to keep the price as high as possible for as little as possible.

BASE M4 Pro Mini, if we go by 200$ price tag for M4 Pro MacBook Pro, vs M4 one should start with 12C CPU, 16C GPU, 24 GB and 1 TB SSD.

Only then it makes sense. Apple is once again ripping their customers, one way or another.

mvprod123 · Oct 31, 2024

Mac16,7 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Mac16,7 with an Apple M4 Pro processor.

browser.geekbench.com

M4 Pro GB6

mvprod123 · Oct 31, 2024

M4 Pro
OpenCL score

Mac16,7 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Mac16,7 with an Apple M4 Pro processor.

browser.geekbench.com

The Hardcard · Oct 31, 2024

Doug S said:
Saw a link to an interesting bit of speculation about the M4P/M4M business

He makes a compelling argument that based on the diagrams Apple provided (which as he says have been truthful about the important details even if they aren't die photos) that M4P is two clusters of 5, and M4M is three clusters of 4.

He's convinced me, that's where I'd place my money if I had to bet. Obviously implies separate dies if Apple's diagrams continue to be truthful.

The die shots and Geekerwan’s core to core latency for the M3 Max pretty clearly show 2 clusters of 6 cores despite the M3 Max diagram being 3 rows of 4. I don’t think this is a viable path. I still want core latency measurements and die shots.

jdubs03 · Oct 31, 2024

mvprod123 said:
Mac16,7 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Mac16,7 with an Apple M4 Pro processor.

browser.geekbench.com

M4 Pro GB6

View attachment 110731

Looks like at least in geekbench the M4 Max will score the highest compared to the 285K/9950X.
With two more performance cores I don’t see how it wouldn’t, considering this M4P result basically at a tie.. I’m expecting at least several thousand points higher.

mvprod123 · Oct 31, 2024

M4 Pro
Metal GPU Score (+35% vs M3 Pro)

Mac16,11 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Mac16,11 with an Apple M4 Pro processor.

browser.geekbench.com

poke01 · Oct 31, 2024

Glo. said:
IMO, Apple just wanted to keep the price as high as possible for as little as possible.

BASE M4 Pro Mini, if we go by 200$ price tag for M4 Pro MacBook Pro, vs M4 one should start with 12C CPU, 16C GPU, 24 GB and 1 TB SSD.

Only then it makes sense. Apple is once again ripping their customers, one way or another.

The Macbooks sell in higher volume. The $1999 12 core 24GB is a very good laptop. In 4 months when Best Buy does their $400 off sales. It will be insane value.

I agree the on the M4 Pro Mac mini being priced way too high. For $600 more you get the whole package and its portable. Next M5/6 Pro Mac mini pro needs a $100/$200 price cut

mvprod123 · Oct 31, 2024

M4 Pro AI ANE

Mac16,7 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Mac16,7 with an Apple M4 Pro processor.

browser.geekbench.com

AI GPU:

Mac16,7 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Mac16,7 with an Apple M4 Pro processor.

browser.geekbench.com

AI CPU:

Mac16,7 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Mac16,7 with an Apple M4 Pro processor.

browser.geekbench.com

FlameTail · Oct 31, 2024

M4 Pro Geekbench

Mac16,7 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Mac16,7 with an Apple M4 Pro processor.

browser.geekbench.com

3900 Single Core.

Eug · Oct 31, 2024

mvprod123 said:

22669 of M4 Pro is roughly 50% faster multi-core than M4. That puts it slightly ahead of both M3 Max and M2 Ultra. Very impressive.

And M4 is roughly the speed of M3 Pro. Also very impressive.

Basically, this means a ton of content creators out there could use either a 32 GB M4 or a 48-64 GB M4 Pro for all their work, unless they need the GPU of M4 Max.

poke01 · Nov 1, 2024

M4 Max

Mac16,5 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Mac16,5 with an Apple M4 Max processor.

browser.geekbench.com

Eug · Nov 1, 2024

poke01 said:
M4 Max

Mac16,5 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Mac16,5 with an Apple M4 Max processor.

browser.geekbench.com

Single-core score 4060!

FlameTail · Nov 1, 2024

4000+ Single Core
4.5 GHz
M4 Max
Macbook Pro

Splendid.

I am looking forward to Cinebench 2024 Multi Core score. It should exceed 2000 points.

mvprod123 · Nov 1, 2024

M4 Max GPU Metal Score

Mac16,5 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Mac16,5 with an Apple M4 Max processor.

browser.geekbench.com

Eug · Nov 1, 2024

I just came across these 13" iPad Pro M4 Geekbench 6.3 scores:

4005 / 15006
4001 / 15007

trivik12 · Nov 1, 2024

This has to be the strongest upgrade to Macs since the M1 release for sure. Base RAM of 16GB across the board makes them very attractive. Plus the upgrades are uber expensive as usual and as a AAPL stock holder I love everyone who upgrades as much as possible. They do that for sure looking across social media and forums

gdansk · Nov 1, 2024

trivik12 said:
They do that for sure looking across social media and forums

Hah, I have foiled your vile capitalist schemes.
I am not upgrading. But it was very tempting.

poke01 · Nov 1, 2024

I cancelled my order it was an impulse purchase. I already have a great desktop which I upgraded this year. Don’t need another.

I rather save up

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