Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

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TESKATLIPOKA

Platinum Member
May 1, 2020
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My TLDR review -

Back in my competitive full contact karate days, our training mentality was Ikken Hissatsu. It wasn't the LARPer teh deadly interpretation, it was synonymous with Mike Tyson's throwing with bad intentions philosophy. That's what the 9800X3D just did. It Saitama'd everything Intel ever made for gaming with one punch.

Thank you for attending my TED talk.
I think you watch too much Anime.
 

naukkis

Senior member
Jun 5, 2002
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No. Why should It be? 7800X3D is more efficient than 9800X3D. 9800X3D manages higher clockspeed in comparison, but at the cost of power.
But of course It shouldn't really matter in dekstop, If you want to pair It with a 450W GPU, then extra 20-30W doesn't really matter.

If someone prefers efficiency over performance he can just limit cpu TDP to wanted level. AMD this time have real power on cpu so they could priority showing performance instead of perf/watt.
 
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lightmanek

Senior member
Feb 19, 2017
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No. Why should It be? 7800X3D is more efficient than 9800X3D. 9800X3D manages higher clockspeed in comparison, but at the cost of power.
But of course It shouldn't really matter in dekstop, If you want to pair It with a 450W GPU, then extra 20-30W doesn't really matter.
Why not set both to the same cTDP65W and compare them then instead of just analysing the wrong data?
Wendel from Level1Tech confirmed in his review that cTDP works perfectly fine with 9800X3D, we just need a reviewer or forum member to test it in that power envelope.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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I think you watch too much Anime.
The man just told you he did competitive full contact karate and all you got was the anime reference?

Going back to the power consumption observation, I would argue it's fine for an enthusiast chip. As long as the non-3D chips stay with lower default TDPs it's all good for the average consumer.
 

TESKATLIPOKA

Platinum Member
May 1, 2020
2,555
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Why not set both to the same cTDP65W and compare them then instead of just analysing the wrong data?
Wendel from Level1Tech confirmed in his review that cTDP works perfectly fine with 9800X3D, we just need a reviewer or forum member to test it in that power envelope.
I would do that, If I had them, but I don't.
Who know when or If some reviewer will bother testing both of them limited to 65W.
BTW, wasn't there some leak that 3d cache is also coming to laptops, or am I mistaken?
 

Panino Manino

Senior member
Jan 28, 2017
876
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cant wait to see the comment from the author of looserbenchmark

Got curious.
This is what he wrote on the 9600X review:
When the 9000X3D variants launch (expected in early 2025) gamers who play cache sensitive games such as SoTTR or Factorio with a 4090 and don’t mind frame drops, may find value in the 9800X3D. Meanwhile, Intel’s 12th and 13th gen CPUs continue to offer the best value for money in today’s market. Furthermore, Intel is scheduled to launch Arrow-Lake (est. +10% performance vs 14th gen) and Lunar-Lake (snapdragon competitive x86 battery life) this year, but they face serious challenges due to reliance on marketers who are mostly funded by AMD

How can anyone even think about the highlighted part? (and I see there are people how still thinks the same now? How?!)
For the Arrows he just wrote that "probably won't be better than last gen" and nothing more.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,846
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No. Why should It be? 7800X3D is more efficient than 9800X3D. 9800X3D manages higher clockspeed in comparison, but at the cost of power.
But of course It shouldn't really matter in dekstop, If you want to pair It with a 450W GPU, then extra 20-30W doesn't really matter.
Exactly, the only reason 7800X3D isn't running at higher wattage is because of the physical limitations regarding heat.

If AMD simply shipped all the processors with and "eco mode", "normal" and "PBO" each with optimized curves then it would be easy for most users to choose which they preferred. Obviously, you should still be able to do everything manually.

But I don't know how much difference there is in the binning between X and non X and 3D vcache chips, to make it feasable.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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Then I better watch what I write, to not make him angry.
You are confusing me with @Hulk; he's the one you don't make angry. I punish the guilty.

I still train and coach. And tell me you don't like One Punch Man? Come on, that show is so good.

On topic: Even our sister site PCGamer reviewed it - https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/processors/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d-review/

The Factorio bench is sick - 2.5 times faster than the 285K. I have read raptor does much better late game (maybe arrow would too?), but I have not seen those numbers personally.

Here's another site most of us don't think of for CPU reviews; the Verge - https://www.theverge.com/2024/11/6/24288948/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d-review-cpu-processor-benchmark-test

After the legendary PC build video, no one can be blamed for not associating them with PC hardware.
 
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TESKATLIPOKA

Platinum Member
May 1, 2020
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You are confusing me with @Hulk; he's the one you don't make angry. I punish the guilty.

I still train and coach. And tell me you don't like One Punch Man? Come on, that show is so good.
Yeah, @Hulk is the one to watch out for.
It's pretty good, but lately I prefer Korean manhwa.
On topic: Even our sister site PCGamer reviewed it - https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/processors/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d-review/

The Factorio bench is sick - 2.5 times faster than the 285K. I have read raptor does much better late game (maybe arrow would too?), but I have not seen those numbers personally.
It would have been interesting to see how Strix Halo does with a strong dGPU, but I don't think such a combo will be released even in laptops.
Still, 256-bit DDR5 and 32MB SLC could be an interesting boost to FPS, but Halo is limited to only 40CU IGP.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
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Weird they were the only reviewer that said AMD recommended to test on 23H2.
It's an agenda driven decision AKA shilling. Raptor benefits far less than Ryzen from 24H2. Arrow is nerfed using it. That's why he chose it for all systems; It is needed for Arrow, and hamstrings Ryzen.

In Wendell's testing, the 285K crashed in Space Marine 2 at every resolution. Can anyone confirm this is a known issue, or is it just his setup? I did not get anything solid in a quick search.

EDIT: This is why lazy canned bench testing for many games needs to stop. You have to test in a CPU intensive area in 2077 or you get this -

 
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TESKATLIPOKA

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EDIT: This is why lazy canned bench testing for many games needs to stop. You have to test in a CPU intensive area in 2077 or you get this -

View attachment 111158
But It's a very CPU intensive scene, don't you see 285K in the rearview?
Pat dreamed of seeing AMD in the rearview, yet he is seeing his latest CPU there. Sad
And It's even slower than the previous one.
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
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But It's a very CPU intensive scene, don't you see 285K in the rearview?
Pat dreamed of seeing AMD in the rearview, yet he is seeing his latest CPU there. Sad
And It's even slower than the previous one.
I know you are being facetious, but here is CPU heavy results from HUB -



EDIT: First COD MW3 results I've seen -




That's a drastic difference from the canned bench. The 285K still brings up the rear, so that part is accurate.
 
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Timorous

Golden Member
Oct 27, 2008
1,775
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It's an agenda driven decision AKA shilling. Raptor benefits far less than Ryzen from 24H2. Arrow is nerfed using it. That's why he chose it for all systems; It is needed for Arrow, and hamstrings Ryzen.

In Wendell's testing, the 285K crashed in Space Marine 2 at every resolution. Can anyone confirm this is a known issue, or is it just his setup? I did not get anything solid in a quick search.

EDIT: This is why lazy canned bench testing for many games needs to stop. You have to test in a CPU intensive area in 2077 or you get this -

View attachment 111158

What really needs to stop is the 10 versions of the same test.

Imagine a productivity suite that was just 10 different 3d renderers, most of which nobody uses. That is what CPU gaming benchmarks are pretty much, it just covers the AAA titles with very little covering the rest of the gaming market. GN atleast test Stellaris and some of the german sites test ANNO so there are a few places that at least throw in those sorts of titles but if you wanted a proper suite you would do something like the below

1 e-sports shooter. (CS2, Cod, Valorant)
1 e-sports MOBA. (LoL or Dota)
1 RTS (starcraft 2)
1 ARPG (path of exile, Diablo 4)
1 turn time test (civ 6, civ 7 next year)
1 sim rate test (HoI4, Cities skylines, Factorio, Satisfactory)
1 survival game (PubG, Rust)
1 Flight sim (MSFS, Xplane)
1 racing sim (ACC, iRacing)
1 Bethesda game (Modded Skyrim given that is more popular than Starfield or Starfield given that is the newest iteration of the engine)
1 CDPR game (CP2077 given that is their latest and is popular)
1 Larian game (BG3)
2 AAA games that are currently popular

That covers a 15 game suite and would give you a pretty broad look at a lot of different titles, some of which are AAA and some of which go beyond just looking at that.

Then imagine if there were 5 different outlets that each tested a different game in each category or where they do test the same game they each tested a unique scene. That would give you far more scope to make a purchasing decision.
 

TESKATLIPOKA

Platinum Member
May 1, 2020
2,555
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I know you are being facetious, but here is CPU heavy results from HUB -

View attachment 111160
Computerbase also has such games. >60% difference in FPS. This is a true Bulldozer, not that fake from some years ago.


@Timorous Yeah, I saw those results, quite an anomaly, but ARL consumes a lot of power there.
 
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