Why did Trump win and what will be the response of the Democratic party?

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,594
6,442
126
Funny, all I've seen is talk about rounding up migrants, dissolving portions of government, and purging officials to replace them with yes-men. Govt taking control over women's bodies, children's bodies, basically every body that isn't a white male.
When the majority votes for it that’s a no fraud democratic election. But what is it when the mentally ill outnumber the sane? What happens in a country that hated the good and denies it? Who knew?
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,214
14,196
136
This election turned out to be less on turnout and more on persuasion. Believe it or not, it's fact. When all votes are counted, we'll find the dems only had slightly lower turnout than in 2020. The problem is that too many of them voted for Trump. I'm talking about people who voted for Biden in 2020.

It's easy to say it's because of blacks and Hispanics. And indeed, large numbers voted for Trump, enough to turn the election even had everyone else voted the same as in past elections. But it wasn't just those two groups. It was literally in every demographic that Harris did worse than Biden, with the lone exception of white suburban females. It was young people, especially young males. And to a lesser extent, everyone else.

If you wanted to put this on anyone in particular, it's men. Trump did even better with men than in previous elections. My theory is that it has to do with the trans issue, and toxic masculinity, which goes hand in hand with transphobia and homophobia. I think men are more homophobic and transphobic than women because too many feel their masculinity being threatened by those things. When I was in grade school, I got introduced to homophobia with all the schoolyard talk, "hey f*****t! that's so gay" etc. It was always the boys. Never once heard a girl use a homophobic slur.

Another factor obviously was immigration. Enough people across numerous demographics bought the lies that dems are easy on immigration and that it is bringing a crimewave.

Also inflation was a factor because the prices remain high relative to before even though the inflation rate has come back down. This, however, IMO was not enough in and of itself to elect Trump.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,594
6,442
126
Besides a plethora of other reasons big and small, what stood out to me was how logic and common sense was completely and utterly defeated by the emotional impact Trump's supporters relied on to guide who they were going to vote for.

They had completely disregarded the fact the Trump is a convicted felon, that he is a proven sex offender and every other bad thing Trump has proven to be and brushed all of that aside to vote for him. Now, in another world where qualifications really mattered, any one of Trump's acts of malfeasance would have been a convincing disqualifier, yet Trump won anyway.

So I asked myself what is it that so many millions of people would think it's perfectly fine to vote for a convicted felon when what they were offered by the Democrats would directly and positively benefit the vast majority of the nation, that being the working class folks of America, of whom the majority of the citizenry forsake every good thing the Democrats were offering them. What mattered more to them than lowering their taxes, a better chance of lifting their lives and livelihoods and every other thing that the Democrat Party as gifted them with over the decades of which the Republican party has been fervently trying to take away?

What is it that they think Trump offers them besides more lies and empty promises like he did in his first term that they would give up a chance for a better life for themselves and their children?

Well, apparently it's what Trump says he will do to the nation's immigrants, to the nation's women, to the LGBTQ community, to every single person that voted against him, to every person that teased him, convicted him and attacked that hoax macho man image he built around himself, to the very people who put him in office if they get in his way if need be. He's not only getting revenge for himself, in the minds of his supporters, it's much more important that Trump is getting revenge for them too

And as I've said before, Trump will enjoy the luxury of having his supporters ignore and even praise his acts of treason and malfeasance that he will surely commit along with the ability to dismantle The Constitution as he sees fit.

Looks like I'll have to shut myself off from what Trump will do to us in order to keep my sanity intact. Just have to wait another four years to see if my right to vote is still around.
No, you have to understand this was the inevitable outcome of a winner take all capitalist system. Competition is hate and hatred is indicative of insanity. Hate is fear, fear produces brain dead panicked reactivity. The country is in the throws of a mass psychosis. Shutting yourself off from it is embracing it. You are suffering the same disease. Deal with it awake if you can. PS this is just my opinion
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,214
14,196
136
I haven't noted that lurch into authoritarianism. I have seen a rejection to exposing children to cross dressers, and a very serious concern over administering puberty blockers or performing unnecessary surgery on minors. I have no issue with either of those. I've also noted increasing frustration with immigration, and I understand that point of view.

So people voted for Trump because they're concerned about what's happening to other people's kids? Because no one is forcing hormone blockers on their kids or any kids for that matter. If people think it's wrong to give a 12 year old hormone blockers, then they should take it up with their parents, though honestly it is other people's kids so it's not really their business. And in any event, it certainly isn't a good reason to vote for Trump.

So far as "exposing children to cross dressers," why? Is it because they think it rubs off just like "the gay" rubs off? Like OMG I always was attracted to girls but now I see a guy whose attracted to guys and that makes me switch my attraction to the other gender? Or gee I always felt like a boy and dressed like one, but now I see a cross dresser I feel like a woman and want to dress like one.

The sheer irrationality of those assumptions should tell you the concerns about children are mostly phony. It's just an argument that sounds respectable enough, because after all we're all supposed to be concerned about kids! A quasi respectable framework to mask something much simpler: primitive bigotry and tribalism. They hate and feel threatened by those who are different from them.

So far as immigration, I suspect it's largely the same thing. Because there is no crimewave, and illegal immigrants commit less violent crime than citizens, according to FBI crime stats. It is another phony concern that covers for something far more primitive. The anti-immigrant sentiment goes all the way back to the beginning of this nation. So people think that Mexican and central Americans immigrants are causing a crimewave? Funny, protestants said the same thing about Catholic immigrants in the 19th century. Similar things have been said at various times about Chinese, Irish, Italians, Jews, you name it.

Same shit, new century.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,568
31,324
136
This election turned out to be less on turnout and more on persuasion. Believe it or not, it's fact. When all votes are counted, we'll find the dems only had slightly lower turnout than in 2020. The problem is that too many of them voted for Trump. I'm talking about people who voted for Biden in 2020.

It's easy to say it's because of blacks and Hispanics. And indeed, large numbers voted for Trump, enough to turn the election even had everyone else voted the same as in past elections. But it wasn't just those two groups. It was literally in every demographic that Harris did worse than Biden, with the lone exception of white suburban females. It was young people, especially young males. And to a lesser extent, everyone else.

If you wanted to put this on anyone in particular, it's men. Trump did even better with men than in previous elections. My theory is that it has to do with the trans issue, and toxic masculinity, which goes hand in hand with transphobia and homophobia. I think men are more homophobic and transphobic than women because too many feel their masculinity being threatened by those things. When I was in grade school, I got introduced to homophobia with all the schoolyard talk, "hey f*****t! that's so gay" etc. It was always the boys. Never once heard a girl use a homophobic slur.

Another factor obviously was immigration. Enough people across numerous demographics bought the lies that dems are easy on immigration and that it is bringing a crimewave.

Also inflation was a factor because the prices remain high relative to before even though the inflation rate has come back down. This, however, IMO was not enough in and of itself to elect Trump.
Yup, all it took to mindfuck the general population is one deceptively edited ad making it look like Kamala is giving out free trans surgery to everyone that wants it.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,801
2,507
136
So people voted for Trump because they're concerned about what's happening to other people's kids? Because no one is forcing hormone blockers on their kids or any kids for that matter. If people think it's wrong to give a 12 year old hormone blockers, then they should take it up with their parents, though honestly it is other people's kids so it's not really their business. And in any event, it certainly isn't a good reason to vote for Trump.

So far as "exposing children to cross dressers," why? Is it because they think it rubs off just like "the gay" rubs off? Like OMG I always was attracted to girls but now I see a guy whose attracted to guys and that makes me switch my attraction to the other gender? Or gee I always felt like a boy and dressed like one, but now I see a cross dresser I feel like a woman and want to dress like one.

The sheer irrationality of those assumptions should tell you the concerns about children are mostly phony. It's just an argument that sounds respectable enough, because after all we're all supposed to be concerned about kids! A quasi respectable framework to mask something much simpler: primitive bigotry and tribalism. They hate and feel threatened by those who are different from them.

So far as immigration, I suspect it's largely the same thing. Because there is no crimewave, and illegal immigrants commit less violent crime than citizens, according to FBI crime stats. It is another phony concern that covers for something far more primitive. The anti-immigrant sentiment goes all the way back to the beginning of this nation. So people think that Mexican and central Americans immigrants are causing a crimewave? Funny, protestants said the same thing about Catholic immigrants in the 19th century. Similar things have been said at various times about Chinese, Irish, Italians, Jews, you name it.

Same shit, new century.
I'm glad you're back and posting again.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,214
14,196
136
Yup, all it took to mindfuck the general population is one deceptively edited ad making it look like Kamala is giving out free trans surgery to everyone that wants it.

I'm not one to put an election result on one ad, but sadly, that ad did more damage than probably anything else. When I saw it, I recall thinking, this is ridiculous. It's only going to turn voters off Trump. And yet I was wrong. It's amazing given how low an opinion I already had about many of my countrymen, only to find myself over-estimating them again.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,594
6,442
126
Or gee I always felt like a boy and dressed like one, but now I see a cross dresser I feel like a woman and want to dress like one.
Please don't give me ideas. It occurs to me that I looked in the mirror and saw a beautiful women I might finally be able to love myself.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,568
31,324
136
I'm not one to put an election result on one ad, but sadly, that ad did more damage than probably anything else. When I saw it, I recall thinking, this is ridiculous. It's only going to turn voters off Trump. And yet I was wrong. It's amazing given how low an opinion I already had about many of my countrymen, only to find myself over-estimating them again.
Heh, that wasn't my reaction. Mine was, fuck, a lot of people are going to fall for that obvious bullshit. I just figured Americans cared a bit more about abortion rights than they apparently do.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,594
6,442
126
Nah, this doesn't make sense. Democrats get their news from mainstream media. All mainstream media said, repeatedly, was that this election was too close to call, was on a literal razor edge. And yet another reason it doesn't make sense is that rightwing social media was calling it for Trump, yet his voters showed up.
You could almost believe that no amount of creative rationalizations could counter this logic, but I won't hold my breath.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,568
31,324
136
Please don't give me ideas. It occurs to me that I looked in the mirror and say a beautiful women I might finally be able to love myself.
"Would you fuck me? I'd fuck me. I'd fuck me hard. I'd fuck me so hard."
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
37,088
29,423
136
I haven't noted that lurch into authoritarianism. I have seen a rejection to exposing children to cross dressers, and a very serious concern over administering puberty blockers or performing unnecessary surgery on minors. I have no issue with either of those. I've also noted increasing frustration with immigration, and I understand that point of view.
I guess you forgot the Muslim ban. And before you claim it wasn't a Muslim ban he said it was a Muslim ban which even this SCOTUS found unconstitutional.

I've seen a rejection of kids learning the real history of this country. Pubs want history whitewashed.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,594
6,442
126
Heh, that wasn't my reaction. Mine was, fuck, a lot of people are going to fall for that obvious bullshit. I just figured Americans cared a bit more about abortion rights than they apparently do.
I thought they'd care more about their country but I guess it was naive projection. I am an exponent of the belief that the real issue is identity politics, the identification with a political party and the herd safety it offers by the virtue signalling of self righteous beliefs as a substitute for the crushing of self respect we endured as children and can't face because of having no other choice but to buy acquiesce to end the torture that even then never ended. Finally and at last I am with real friends and now we can get even for the suffering because we are the new authoritarians and it's our turn to do the torturing. We become how we were treated. We were psychically murdered and now we want to kill.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,214
14,196
136
Heh, that wasn't my reaction. Mine was, fuck, a lot of people are going to fall for that obvious bullshit. I just figured Americans cared a bit more about abortion rights than they apparently do.

Then you were ahead of me in your cynicism. I thought plenty of people would buy it, but only those who were already Trumpies. I didn't think he'd get persuadable voters from the other side, not with that.

In any event, it didn't matter to me because honestly I was near certain Trump would win this election. Not because of any particular issue. Because of the polls. When the media kept saying the polls were deadlocked, I knew that meant a Trump victory because the polls were systemically off in the dems favor in both 2016 and 2020, by 5-6 points in both swing states and the PV. That was the elephant in the room the entire time - that the polls needed to show Harris at least 5 points ahead or Trump was going to win.

That BTW is one of a couple reasons I haven't been posting. I didn't see any point in coming on here and telling people I thought Trump would win, or lying and saying I thought Harris would win. The entire election cycle was like watching a slow motion version of a train wreck. It was depressing.
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,139
6,029
126
I haven't noted that lurch into authoritarianism. I have seen a rejection to exposing children to cross dressers, and a very serious concern over administering puberty blockers or performing unnecessary surgery on minors. I have no issue with either of those. I've also noted increasing frustration with immigration, and I understand that point of view.
My son that is now 9 years old, has ALWAYS been into "girly" stuff since he was like 2 or 3. In Paw Patrol he was always pulled towards the female pup Sky. In Disney movies, he always like Princess Elsa or Moana or anything girly. In PJ Masks he liked Owlette the most. His favorite color is pink. He wants his hair long because he likes it. He likes nail polish and puts it on his nails sometimes. He likes wearing lip gloss sometimes. He has a little purse that he sometimes uses. He is very feminine.

I'll be the first to admit that at first this stuff really bothered me. I am super into sports and wanted my son to like what I like and get into sports but he didn't like them so I don't force him to do them or anything. I felt like everyone was looking at him and would make fun of him because he's different. I even have had conversations with him about this and he even told me that kids in school don't care they let everyone be themselves.

At that point it is when it hit me that it was ME that was being bothered by this and not HIM. At that point I started to be just fine with this stuff and let him do what makes him happy. Sure it's not "normal" to me the way he is, but it is normal to him and that is how he feels. And it's what he likes. And who the hell am I to tell him, my son, what he can and can't like, as long as he's not hurting anyone else.

I don't know if he is straight, gay, trans, or what at this point. And I also don't give a shit I just want him to be a happy person.

So my question to you is, why the HELL do you care SO MUCH about what someone who has absolutely no affect on your entire life, does in their own time and who they are? Why can't you just let people be themselves and be their own version of "normal" without you having to intervene?
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,805
8,322
136
My son that is now 9 years old, has ALWAYS been into "girly" stuff since he was like 2 or 3. In Paw Patrol he was always pulled towards the female pup Sky. In Disney movies, he always like Princess Elsa or Moana or anything girly. In PJ Masks he liked Owlette the most. His favorite color is pink. He wants his hair long because he likes it. He likes nail polish and puts it on his nails sometimes. He likes wearing lip gloss sometimes. He has a little purse that he sometimes uses. He is very feminine.

I'll be the first to admit that at first this stuff really bothered me. I am super into sports and wanted my son to like what I like and get into sports but he didn't like them so I don't force him to do them or anything. I felt like everyone was looking at him and would make fun of him because he's different. I even have had conversations with him about this and he even told me that kids in school don't care they let everyone be themselves.

At that point it is when it hit me that it was ME that was being bothered by this and not HIM. At that point I started to be just fine with this stuff and let him do what makes him happy. Sure it's not "normal" to me the way he is, but it is normal to him and that is how he feels. And it's what he likes. And who the hell am I to tell him, my son, what he can and can't like, as long as he's not hurting anyone else.

I don't know if he is straight, gay, trans, or what at this point. And I also don't give a shit I just want him to be a happy person.

So my question to you is, why the HELL do you care SO MUCH about what someone who has absolutely no affect on your entire life, does in their own time and who they are? Why can't you just let people be themselves and be their own version of "normal" without you having to intervene?
I can answer your question.

If you let your child be themselves, other people might let their children be themselves, and then traditionalists and conservatives won't be able to demand that your children act in a way that they think is correct. And those traditionalists and conservatives believe that a Sky Wizard just so happens to believe everything they believe, and they also believe insane shit like that Sky Wizard is going to send hurricanes to destroy their houses and F150s because the Sky Wizard is angry.

Oh, and a lot of those traditionalists and conservatives would have loved to have grown up just like your child is now, but they didn't, so yours shouldn't either.

That's literally it. There's nothing deeper. They think it's some kind of choice being made and they disagree with that choice and will use the power of the state to prohibit that choice if they get the chance.
 

gothuevos

Platinum Member
Jul 28, 2010
2,704
2,117
136
I mean, is there even a Democratic party left anymore? Completely obliterated at the federal level. Zero pushback on anything Trump wants to do the next 2 years. And we don't know if the GOP will keep the filibuster or not. Would be pretty funny if they get rid of it and pack the court, just to spite us. Why not at this point, Dems aren't even controlled opposition. They're nothing.

Twice now that they've just been completely wiped out by Trump and the GOP. Is there someone at the state level that they can rally around? Polis, Wes Moore? Newsome (LOL)?

Feels bleak. Help me feel better LOL
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,594
6,442
126
I guess you forgot the Muslim ban. And before you claim it wasn't a Muslim ban he said it was a Muslim ban which even this SCOTUS found unconstitutional.

I've seen a rejection of kids learning the real history of this country. Pubs want history whitewashed.
Their need not to feel bad about the obvious split between real morality and their childhood inculcated unconsciously held attachment to it provides them with instant rationalizations perfectly acceptable unless they start thinking about it introspectively feels like death if they do. We deny we are fucked and have been for a very long time. No child could survive consciously aware of endless putdowns and threats. The behavior becomes habituated. We are deeply armored against emotional pain. It's why there is so much depression. Awakening begins with sadness, existential angst, irritability, anger and finally rage. Finally, the capacity to feel what one feels leads to memory of when we first felt that way, realization, and finally real grief. Grief opens the good to real self pity and the forgiveness of grace. Imagine what we have suffered when there never was anything wrong with us and continue doing it up to today.

You can defend yourself against any evil but the evil of self hate. That we do to ourselves in denial of shame and feelings of guilt. All of these states are products of thought and imagination, created by the the capacity to associate thinking to feelings of pain and pleasure. We live in a nightmare landscape of an altered reality. It all vanishes with you awaken to the joy of simply being here.
 

baydude

Senior member
Sep 13, 2011
814
80
91
What happened to the 13+ million people who came out in 2020 to vote against Trump this election?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,594
6,442
126
I mean, is there even a Democratic party left anymore? Completely obliterated at the federal level. Zero pushback on anything Trump wants to do the next 2 years. And we don't know if the GOP will keep the filibuster or not. Would be pretty funny if they get rid of it and pack the court, just to spite us. Why not at this point, Dems aren't even controlled opposition. They're nothing.

Twice now that they've just been completely wiped out by Trump and the GOP. Is there someone at the state level that they can rally around? Polis, Wes Moore? Newsome (LOL)?

Feels bleak. Help me feel better LOL
I have told you your mental state is self created. Only you can help yourself. Just fact it. You are fucked and then you die. Go find an animal somewhere, preferably one that loves you and explain all that misery to them. See if they freak out or start to cry.
Everything is attitude.

I would say that one way to begin to feel better is to know that a bad attitude is pretty universal so you are on a normal spectrum and there's no reason to beat yourself up about it or bother with anybody else's criticism. There is seeing truth about oneself objectively and seeing it with blaming eyes. Try not to blame yourself for going down the blame game road. That is normal too. Just try to be aware of it when you see it. Be nice to yourself. We were all made into our own worst enemies. Note it and see if you can feed it with less certainty and more humility that it's just an attitude not a reality. Practice gratitude. Having a bad attitude is still better than being dead. Enjoy the times when you forget how miserable the world is. The locks on modern doors will keep cave bear away if the fire goes out. You don't have to breathe smoke all the time. You can order dinner instead of hunting it while being hunted for something's else's dinner. Misery isn't what it used to be. Laugh. It changes the wiring in your brain. Pity the haters. They have no idea how much they hate themselves and the damage that does.

And remember too that the idea that we were created in God's image means we created him also in ours. Consider the possibility there is a real god hidden within you feels only love for all creation.

And virtue may be it's only reward but what a reward that is. It's the real way to have self respect.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,594
6,442
126
What happened to the 13+ million people who came out in 2020 to vote against Trump this election?
My bet is that they were too busy watching all those raindrops fall. Nobody believed in the Captain or his Mystery Ship.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,903
5,058
136
I even have had conversations with him about this and he even told me that kids in school don't care they let everyone be themselves.
Imagine if we got rid “American Christian” bigotry. The next generation could solve all the hate and divisiveness. And they call the left groomers.
 
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UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,987
9,303
136
At this point, I think Democrats need to do less finger pointing and more soul searching to figure out the future of the party. The generation of leaders that marched with Doctor King is fading and gone. The generation of leaders that rallied for the ERA, unions, Stonewall, Harvey Milk, gay marriage and trans rights is no longer needed IMO.

I think focusing on abortion/women’s health or Boomer issues (social security, medicare/healthcare etc.) isn’t a winning strategy. And for Godssakes, I’m done with fucking trial lawyers and lawyers in general.

Our best shot at finding someone to speak to the issues affecting a wide swath of Americans (urban, sub-urban, rural, coastal/middle America, 20-something to 50-something, white black Hispanic etc.) is Pete Buttigieg and at this moment he’s our best shot at defeating Vance in 2028. But there’s only one of him—and we need a whole new generation of candidates for mid-terms in 2026 that is focused one one thing only—rebuilding prosperity and quality of life for the middle class, providing mobility for those who aspire to be middle-class, and preventing billionaires, corporations and churches from dictating our rights and freedoms.
 
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